Blakes7 March 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

96 participants
1067 discussions

Re: [B7L] Horizon and Redemption
by Julie Oppenheimer 01 Mar '01

01 Mar '01

> >Judith using Julia's account > > > >I can't speak for the rest of you, but I think ringing up Gareth Thomas >and > >asking him what he thinks of Gay porn ect. featuring himself,is probably >one of > >the stupidest things I've ever heard. What did you expect him to say, >"Yes I > >love it. The harder the better!" How would Judith Proctor like it is I >produced > >a fanzine which had explicit drawings of her and Steve Rogerson? Diane >Gies may > >be raving mad, but look at the people she's up against. It's enough to >send > >anyone to the funny farm. > >'Scuse me, the reason I phoned Gareth is because people were making >assumptions about his views which I had good reason to believe were >incorrect. ie. I did *not* expect him to agree with my own views, but >he's a friend and I did for him what I would do for any other friend who >isn't on the Lyst, namely asked him if he wanted to say anything with >regard to what I felt was a probable misquote of his views. > >Gareth and I have known one another for a long time. I gave him an open >invitation to drop in on any of the slash panels at Redemption if he >wished to make his feelings known on any topic, or if he simply wished >to try and understand the mindset of slash fans. In fact he did appear >in one - again, someone had made a statement of what they felt Gareth's >opinions were and Julia (with the agreement of the panel and the >audience) invited him up from the bar to give his own view on the topic >which he did. Not impressed. If you know Gareth Thomas as well as you say then why did you have to ring him to ask him what his opinion was on such a subject? Especially since he had all ready said it at a Redemption panel.Common sense would be sufficient alone to know that Gareth would not want to get involved with this discussion here and also that he would quite rightly be offended by pictures of him having it off with some other actor. If Diane Gies band advertising you convention because for the reasons she gave,and they are very good ones, and Diane knows Gareth, then you must have known that Gareth had attended your con inspite of its promotion of slash artwork. This says a great deal about Gareth Thomas's good nature but also about your lack of judgement. I am thinking of doing a fanzine that contains some explicit porn, with artwork of you and Steve Rogerson, but before I start can I have your permission, and would you like to pose for the more complex images? >Gareth doesn't like people making assumptions about his opinions, never >has done. One of the reasons he dislikes newspapers is because they so >often misquote him. Does this mean then that you spoke to Gareth about his view on slash before inviting him to Redemption? If you did then there was no reason to ring him up, if you didn't then you were making assumtions about his opinions also. As I said, not very bright. Julie _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Pages Bar, 10 March
by Ashton7＠aol.com 01 Mar '01

01 Mar '01

In a message dated 3/1/01 1:17:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, steve.rogerson(a)mcr1.poptel.org.uk writes: << Five of us are going to the matinee of JP's play on Saturday 10 March and then onto Pages Bar in the evening. Anyone want to join us at Pages. If so, let me know. If you haven't been before, I'll send you directions. >> Ah, I remember London and Pages very fondly. Check it out, Steve (or anyone else): http://members.aol.com/ashton7/london2.jpg http://members.aol.com/ashton7/london4.jpg Annie

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OT: "Baby" Announcement
by Ashton7＠aol.com 01 Mar '01

01 Mar '01

Well, I haven't seen Leah posting anything about this, so I will! Many of you know that we breed and show pedigreed cats (Somalis and also American Shorthairs). For the last couple of years, we haven't been active, due to my health. Finally, a few months ago, we decided to try to start up our breeding program again. Sadly, we have had some bad luck. One cat lost her kittens when they were born. Another one reabsorbed her kittens (but not until late in the pregnancy) and she had to be spayed to save her life. Our beautiful Paprika, our great red stud cat, died last week of kidney failure. But, last night, our gorgeous Bizarro's Avalon had three beautiful little Somali kittens. There are two reds and ruddy. The ruddy is a girl and one of the reds is a boy. I'm not sure about the third one because it is much smaller than the other two, but I think it is also a boy. The proud father is Bizarro's Duncan MacLeod. Please stop by our cattery page and check out pictures of some of our beautiful cats. I can't wait to start taking photos of the new babies! http://members.aol.com/bizarro7/bizcat.htm Annie

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Paula and Steve Go Down the Pub
by Steve Rogerson 01 Mar '01

01 Mar '01

Paula and Steve Go Down the Pub, a short immature zine for mature readers, is now available via mail order. The zine costs Pound 1.50 plus the following P&P charges: 1st class: 0.57 2nd class: 0.44 Europe: 1.40 Zone 1 (US, Africa, etc): 3.10 Zone 2 (Australia/NZ): 3.59 If ordering from overseas, try to get sterling to us or US dollars in cash. If you want one, drop me an email and I'll send you my address. The zine is 39 pages long with illos. It contains a number of short stories, most of which have been on Freedom City, though two are new to this zine. It's weird. It was written and produced my Paula Robinson and I. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption: The Blake's 7 and Babylon 5 convention 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Pages Bar, 10 March
by Steve Rogerson 01 Mar '01

01 Mar '01

Five of us are going to the matinee of JP's play on Saturday 10 March and then onto Pages Bar in the evening. Anyone want to join us at Pages. If so, let me know. If you haven't been before, I'll send you directions. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption: The Blake's 7 and Babylon 5 convention 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Nude drawings
by Steve Rogerson 01 Mar '01

01 Mar '01

Julie Oppenheimer wrote: > How would Judith Proctor like it is > I produced a fanzine which had explicit drawings of her and Steve > Rogerson? Now you've done it - Paula has just suggested this as her next project. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption: The Blake's 7 and Babylon 5 convention 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Re: [B7L] Re: in calm discussion (was Deliverance)
by Ashton7＠aol.com 01 Mar '01

01 Mar '01

In a message dated 3/1/01 11:48:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, ijc(a)bas.ac.uk writes: << There are just a few decent, honest human beings who have for whatever reason been upset or angered by some of your words. >> Hmmm... so "they" were "angered" by my words and so in result "they" make the assumption that I have called Henry Jenkins (who, to the best of my knowledge isn't on this list) "unethical." Yeah. That makes a LOT of sense. NOT. Annie

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Re: [B7L] Re: in calm discussion (was Deliverance)
by Ashton7＠aol.com 01 Mar '01

01 Mar '01

In a message dated 3/1/01 11:48:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, ijc(a)bas.ac.uk writes: << Not being psychic, the only way we have to divine what you think is by reading your words and trying to interpret them honestly and sincerely. >> Let's make it very easy in small words for you, then. I said what I meant and I meant what I said. There were SOME fans who were upset at the time Camille's book and also Henry's book appeared because they didn't like the idea of being "studied" and "interpreted." That's what I said. THat's what I meant. I made no moral judgment one way or another. If you or anyone else wants to make a moral judgment, that's *your* judgment. Don't put it on me. Annie

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Re: [B7L] Western Civ and all that (was Hurt/Comfort and all that)
by Ellynne G. 01 Mar '01

01 Mar '01

On Thu, 1 Mar 2001 08:05:19 EST Bizarro7(a)aol.com writes: > In a message dated 3/1/01 7:13:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, > salma_106(a)hotmail.com writes: > > Don't get me started. It's a pet peeve of mine that, largely thanks > to the > dominant patriarchal religion, Western society regards sex between > consenting > adults to be an obscenity, but violence is perfectly acceptable and > children > may be exposed to tremendous amounts of it from a very young age. If > this > isn't completely twisted, I don't know what is. 1) Well, I don't think the tremendous amounts of violence kids are exposed to is good. Evil is the more likely word to come to mind. 2) I find myself in an interesting position on your first premise - Christianity's influence on western views of sex. This probably won't go over well with either side, but, personally, I'd put this down as a Greek philosophy derived idea. To make a long story short (and avoid having to dig out the old textbooks and look up details), a common philosophy in intellectual circles two thousand years ago was that spirit and matter were separate and opposed. This actually led to two very opposed groups. The Hedonists held that the separation between them meant you could indulge the body like crazy without harm to the spirit. The Stoics held that the body was the enemy of the spirit and that such indulgence was bad. Culturally, the Stoics won a lot of major rounds on this issue. Now, I'm somewhat in opposition to this view. I was raised up with the idea that intimacy is sacred, not sick, which puts me in the conservative camp on porn and such.Since Paul's been brought up, let me cite the phrase about bridling passions. The idea of a bridle is not to kill the horse. Rather, it's to tame, train, and teach the horse. Sexuality is a very important part of life but, I would argue, one that belongs in very specific bounds for just that reason. It's a part of a larger relationship (which, where I'm coming from, means a married relationship). Anything less, to me, is too demeaning to it. It divorces it from its human context. > No one has yet explained to me why, in our society, an act of life > and love > is filthy and needs to be censored, and acts of death and > destruction are > cool entertainment. Even the bible was full of both. And showed the consquences of both. Everyone knows the story of David and Goliath, but the story of David and Bathsheba is the one that would fit into the B7 universe (whew, a reference). However, I will skip the ways in which I think David could be compared to Servalan. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: [B7L] To apologise or not to apologise
by Ellynne G. 01 Mar '01

01 Mar '01

On Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:42:35 -0800 (PST) M <nova_m1(a)excite.co.uk> writes: Do we > need Avon > to not have committed this crime so much, we try to absolve him? For me, killing Blake is one step too far (the same if Avon had killed Vila). Without extenuating circumstances, this is just more than I can take from him. But, I think it's also more than he can take as a character. An Avon who has knowingly killed Blake has destroyed something essential about himself. Whatever Blake symbolized to him - hope, idealism, selflessness - and whatever part of him (however grudgingly) connected to that is dead. Maybe the right term isn't absolve so much as absolution, the idea that forgiveness and redemption are miracles that occur outside the individual. For the story to go on, that's what's needed. Either Avon needs to be credibly separated from full guilt or an equally credible party needs to forgive him (probably Blake, unless a very good argument can be made for someone else). Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Blakes7 March 2001