Blakes7 March 2001

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96 participants
1067 discussions

Re: slash
by Steve Rogerson 06 Mar '01

06 Mar '01

Shane said: "Slash, however mild, only works if you take it out of the context of the series, cause it's not canon. I think there's been a couple of threads on the subject of the distortion of the programme lately which have proved this more or less conclusively." The main point of fan fiction is to read between the lines and take the show places where it didn't go on TV. Just repeating what was on TV would be pointless, therefore any fan fiction is not canon by definition, but that doesn't mean it is not in the context of the show. One area that fan fiction looks at often is possible relationships between the characters above and beyond what we see on screen, and there is just as much evidence for homosexual as there is for heterosexual relationships between the characters, that is very little with some hints. Undoubtedly there is a strong tension between Blake and Avon which can be and is by some interpreted as having a sexual element. Remember, we are to my knowledge given no clues at all to Blake's sexuality during the show. We know Avon is attracted to women, but that doesn't mean he isn't also attracted to men. The same as said for Avon can also be said for Gan, Tarrant and Vila. I don't think Jenna, Cally or Soolin give any hints of their sexuality, but Dayna does show she likes men sexually, but again no evidence that this is exclusive. I'm sorry if this reraises some of the points already discussed on this thread, but I've been a little preoccupied these past few weeks and so haven't been following things properly. But I'm back now. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption: The Blake's 7 and Babylon 5 convention 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Re: [B7L] Kathryn's convention report/slash
by Tavia 06 Mar '01

06 Mar '01

Neil wrote: >and I think the only thing that >bothers me is the insistence by either pro or anti-slashers that their >reading is the only possible correct one. That particular line coming from >the pro-slash side bothers me more, but I think that's because they just >tend to be so much louder, so much more insistent, and so eager to clutch at >the feeblest of straws and claim them as hard evidence. Basically, the >pro-slashers just become a noisy nuisance, while the anti-slashers can quite >rightly (IMO) point to the thinness and ambiguity of all this so-called >evidence, though not so rightly (IMO) claim that this 'proves' that the >characters are absolutely straight. Actually, on re-reading a selection of recent posts, I think this is a teensy bit unfair. Practically everyone supporting slash readings has been careful to point out that this is a personal view only. >The only real >difference between the two is the relative importance accorded to the >sexuality of the characters, and it's not something I regard as terribly >important. If Blake is planting explosives round a Federation base, who >cares if he's gay, straight or bi? True. But -- likewise -- not everyone's interested in fanfic about Blake planting explosives around a Federation base. >That's probably my biggest gripe about not just slash readings but het >readings too. They reduce the characters to nothing but their sexuality. >Nobody, straight, gay or whatever, is that one-dimensional. Adult fic seems >to separate the entire universe into Sex and Everything Else, and promptly >homes in on the sex. I consider the Everything Else to be not only more >interesting but more important as well. Consequently I tend to avoid adult >fic not because it squicks me..., but because it's just so bloody *boring*. I agree in disliking one-dimensional fiction. To me, the adult/slash fiction I enjoy intellectually is the stuff that attempts to map sexual tensions onto other aspects of the series. (The sort that focuses on the romp aspects doesn't do a lot for my intellectual side.) However, the same is true of other one-dimensional fiction. A jolly adventure romp about Blake planting explosives around xyz Federation base would bore me to tears. The same action with an added moral aspect (eg consideration of the Federation civilian casualties) or relationship aspect (eg Blake and other crewmember row over the feasibility/morality/necessity of such action) or whatever would be much more interesting. The separation (dare I say ghettoism) of 'adult' fic is one of my pet peeves in B7 fandom. But I won't reiterate here the rant that already graces the TTBA editorial... >(...I'm virtually unsquickable unless >animals get involved) Tavia womanfully refrains from making that hamster joke. Tavia

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Re: [B7L] Re: slash (also quite short)
by Tavia 06 Mar '01

06 Mar '01

Fiona wrote: >Thing is, though, if we're talking about slash, >most of what I've seen of it doesn't actually go >beyond the sexual, and frequently seems to present >the sexual relationship as a kind of "hey, presto!" >explanation to the complexity of B and A's relationship. >IMO, a slash story which did take the line of "Blake >and Avon have a complex friendship-cum-rivalry, >with elements of sacrificial love... if they were lovers >as well, how would this alter the mix?" would be well >worth reading. However, most of what I've read >seems to go more along the lines of "Avon and Blake >seem to respect each other but be suspicious of each >other, Avon risks everything twice on a slim chance >of finding Blake, Blake trusts Avon despite all the >odds... why is this? I know, they're lovers!" Again, >perhaps I'm reading the wrong stories, but this is what >I've seen. I think you're reading the wrong stories, Fiona. One of the really nice things about B/A slash is the whole complex mess of motivations that the pair of them can get into in various possible scenarios. I particularly like those that posit a strong platonic relationship overlaid by a strong but one-sided, or at least unequal, sexual attraction. You wouldn't even need them to act on it for interesting consequences to ensue. Or the fairly common idea of sexual relationship followed by falling out -- add the lovers' tiff idea onto the differences in ethics that the two harbour and, again, expect fireworks. Tavia PS You really should write your scenario....

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Re: [B7L] Re: slash (shorter and shorter)
by Tavia 06 Mar '01

06 Mar '01

Neil: >It's worth bearing in mind that slash today is the >current phase of a long process of evolution. To the point where some writers have read more fanfic than seen series, if, indeed, they've seen the series at all (eg that story in, I think, Fire&Ice V where Avon has blue eyes). Tavia (who seems to be raising insomnia to an art form)

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Re: [B7L] Re: slash
by Tavia 06 Mar '01

06 Mar '01

Cheryl wrote: >Isn't it just possible that what some members of the >gay community are really seeing is their own fervent >wish that this was so? After all, from what I have >seen, the most common slash stories are A/B. These >are strong characters, many of us admire qualities >present in these men, so much so, that we see things >that are simply not there. >Many women would love to be with their idealised >versions of Avon and Blake and I imagine the same >applies to the gay community, so they see things >between the two characters which are simply not so. Actually (to my knowledge) very little, if any, slash is written by gay men. Nearly all of it appears to be written by women (of all persuasions), though I do know of a few (as far as I know straight) men who've attempted the genre. One of the things I personally dislike about a high proportion of slash fiction is that it doesn't bear a lot of resemblance to (mainstream) stuff I've read written by gay men. The urge to feminise one or both of the characters is (IMO) one cogent argument against slash in most of its current forms (see the excellent story 'Jailbreak' by Steve Rogerson and Paula Robinson in their zine 'Paula and Steve Go Down to the Pub'). As to most common pairing, there's an awful lot of Avon/Vila slash out there, and quite a bit of Avon/Tarrant. Tavia

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Re: Duct tape
by Pat Sumner 06 Mar '01

06 Mar '01

From: Tavia <tavia(a)btinternet.com> > Neil: > >AVON: I keep telling you, Blake - it wasn't MY sellotape. > >BLAKE: True. But it *was* my hamster. > > Duct tape, surely..... it used to be on the ASB FAQ What do they use to hold the ASB FAQ together now? Superglue?

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Defining canon
by Steve Rogerson 06 Mar '01

06 Mar '01

There has been a little confusion over my use of the word "canon". Just to clarify, this is what I mean by it. Canon is anything that happened in the 52 TV episodes and two BBC radio plays (I know some do not include the radio plays) and nothing more. A story is within the boundaries of canon if it does not contradict anything that is in canon (such a story is not in itself canon). A story is non-canonical if it contradicts what is in canon. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption: The Blake's 7 and Babylon 5 convention 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Re: Re [B7L] PWP (porn? what porn?)
by Tavia 06 Mar '01

06 Mar '01

Neil: >At least fan art porn does not, insofar as the mechanics >of its production are concerned, threaten or injure anyone >(unless the artist sprains her wrist or something while drawing). Still less written material. In fact, fan-generated, internet-distributed, text-based porn has to be one of the cheapest, least harmful fun substances known to (wo)man. Tavia

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Re: Slash
by Steve Rogerson 06 Mar '01

06 Mar '01

Cheryl said: "I don't think it is feasible to expect every single individual to declare that they don't fancy the same sex just to prove that they are heterosexual - I think the fact that all the men on B7 having either declared an interest in the opposite sex and/or actually kissed or had sex with women only and no such declarations or actions occurred between the men, pretty much speaks for itself." No, what it does is leave it open to interpretation. It gives fanfic writers room to manoueuvre when exploring sexual relations between the characters and yet still staying within the boundaries of canon. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption: The Blake's 7 and Babylon 5 convention 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Re: Re [B7L] PWP (porn? what porn?)
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 06 Mar '01

06 Mar '01

In a message dated 3/4/01 6:35:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, littles(a)lycos.co.uk writes: << > Food and sex are two addictions that have > something in common, I will say nothing more here, other than to point out how interesting it is that, where I was talking about pornography, Leah seems to have conflated pornography with sex. >> That is because, dear Shane, everyone's interpretation of 'sex' in our society draws the boundary between sex and pornography in a different place. For many, many people, any mention of sex whatsoever is cause for embarassment, censorship and outrage. For others, the line is at the very far horizon of outrageous. Most of us lie somewhere in the middle. But unless you feel that everyone on Earth draws that line exactly in the same place as you do, it all falls under the same general category for the sake of discussion. Leah

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Blakes7 March 2001