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5511 discussions

Re: Eclectic
by Steve Rogerson 26 May '01

26 May '01

Susan Beth said: "so about 100 miles.... heck, that's hardly worth *mentioning*" Didn't someone once say that the main difference between Brits and Americans is that Americans think 100 years is a long time and the British think 100 miles is a long way? -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson "In my world, there are people in chains and you can ride them like ponies" The alternative Willow, Buffy the Vampire Slayer

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Re: [B7L] Shields
by Ellynne G. 26 May '01

26 May '01

On Sat, 26 May 2001 09:12:37 -0700 Steve Rogerson <steve.rogerson(a)mcr1.poptel.org.uk> writes: > Some thoughts on shields from a breakfast discussion at Eclectic. > > The question is really do shields stand up to scientific analysis? > I'm > afraid my science isn't good enough to answer that, so we thought > we'd > throw it open to the list. According to the book, The Physics of Star Trek, maybe. If I remember this right (and assuming I understood any of it in the first place, which I'm not sure I did), start with artificial gravity (and will the real physicists not laugh at me). Gravity is supposed to be a warping in space time caused by mass. Theoretically, you could make an artificial warping through various applications of large amounts of energy. This is also the idea the author went with for warp speed (which ties into the shields). If you just go by the basic three dimensions, faster than light travel is not possible. If, however, you go by four dimensions, including time as a factor, you'll find that light moves faster in some places than in others because gravity effects relativity - the one second that light travels at 186,000 miles in one corner of space is actually more time and, consequently, more distance relative to another corner of space. Hence, if you have artificial gravity, you should be able to create an artificial warping of space time where your light speed is actually faster than the light around you (or that's what the book said). And, if you can create this artificial bubble of space time, you should be able to create an artificial bubble of space time where gravity - which does effect light - can create a kind of shield so that an energy ray or other weapon is not so much deflected as it is working on a different definition of a straight line than the rest of the nearby universe. Or something like that. Oh, and this would take more energy than the Earth's used in its entire, 4 billion year history. The other theory is just that you're able to somehow put energy up in some kind of shield that the bad guys' weapons can't get through. Exact rules unknown but it probably has something to do with the static that builds up on computer screens and TV sets (which means, even though they don't talk about it, Vila probably has to go out and clean off the dust every once in while, although how a shield would deflect weapons and collect dust is beyond me). > > The first point is how do shields work? Also, different SF > programmes > vary on whether you can fire your own weapons when the shields are > up. > Could a shield be only one way in that it will stop incoming fire > but > allow outgoing fire to pass through? Going with the static theory, sure. It's like magnets (I know, I know, it was like static a second ago. This is that unified field theorem thingy where all energy types flow together [which is the writer's way of saying "If it sounds good, use it and ignore the contradictions"]), the negative charge on one end repels the same magnet that the other end would attract. So, one end of the shield pushes away the energy weapons while the other end pulls them through. Why don't they use weapons with a different charge? Hey, I didn't say this was an _exact_ metaphor, did I? It's just a comparison to make things easier for laymen. The real thing is much more complicated. There are good and solid reasons why you can't do that (such as no one ever thinking of it). If it's the gravity thing, I guess you could always shoot at really weird angles. > > We learn from Harvest that the Liberator has overlapping shields - > what's that about? Why couldn't it have just one big shield? Is > there an > advantage to overlapping shields? Maybe to allow weapon fire? I always thought it was shields being generated at different parts of the ship, but maybe it's extra protection in case Travis ever does think of shooting with a different charge (although how to shoot _out_ past the different charges, some pulling, some repelling, is a mystery. Maybe more weird angles are involved?). It might also be that shooting is like a story I heard about WW I pilots. They used to shoot off their own propellers till someone synchronized the guns with the blades so they could only fire when the bullet would miss the blade. In other words, yes, if that's the case, they have to drop the shields instead of work on angles or mutilated physics. It would also mean that several ships able to keep up a continual bombardment would have the advantage over a single ship - a greater chance of getting in a hit during the fraction of a second the shields were down - which means three pursuit ships might be a real worry to the Liberator regardless of relative strength. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Trust
by Leia Fee 26 May '01

26 May '01

Marian said... >>I always thought Tarrant's words meant that he could pick up Vila and haul >>him to the airlock before the others could intervene, rather than that they >>would stand by and let him kill Vila. He says, "The others wouldn't stop me, and you couldn't could you?" It implies that he expects the others to let him get rid of Vila. I don't know if he really beleives they *would* let or if he's just trying to scare Vila into doing what he's told but either way Vila seems to believe him. I don't think the others would have let Tarrant dump Vila but Tarrant does seem quite supried at their reaction to his bulling Vila into going down. Leia

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Re: [B7L] Eclectic
by Susan Beth 26 May '01

26 May '01

Katharine Woods wrote: > >And my Mum had some friends who had a daughter >who was flying to Canada to spend a year out. They contacted >some Canadian friends who lived in Vancouver and >asked if they could meet the daughter when she >arrived in Toronto. The terse response from the Canadian >friends was "You meet her. You're nearer." > LOL. Yep, the old, "Oh, you live in New York, do you now my friend whosie?" problem. We hosted several foreign exchange students over the years, and one French girl was putting on airs about how her family had vacationed in six or seven European countries as she grew up and what sticks in the mud we were since our family had only gone to Mexico and Canada. After consulting an atlas we figured out that the eight states our family had *lived in* over a similar period covered a much greater geographic area than all her travels. ;-) Susan Beth (susanbeth33(a)mindspring.com)

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Re: Eclectic
by Steve Rogerson 26 May '01

26 May '01

Susan Beth wrote: "You know, I am going to have to put up a wall-sized map of England and do some studying. I don't know if you've just accomplished the equivalent of a trip from New York to Dallas, or a shuttle hop from Boston to Washington, D.C." Nothing major. I live in London, and Leicester is about an hour and ten minutes by train from London, going almost due north. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson "In my world, there are people in chains and you can ride them like ponies" The alternative Willow, Buffy the Vampire Slayer

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Shields
by Steve Rogerson 26 May '01

26 May '01

Some thoughts on shields from a breakfast discussion at Eclectic. The question is really do shields stand up to scientific analysis? I'm afraid my science isn't good enough to answer that, so we thought we'd throw it open to the list. The first point is how do shields work? Also, different SF programmes vary on whether you can fire your own weapons when the shields are up. Could a shield be only one way in that it will stop incoming fire but allow outgoing fire to pass through? We learn from Harvest that the Liberator has overlapping shields - what's that about? Why couldn't it have just one big shield? Is there an advantage to overlapping shields? Maybe to allow weapon fire? Also from Harvest, we learn the shields can be detected, otherwise Jarvik couldn't have spotted the gap. How does that work? As you see, lots of questions but not many answers. Any thoughts? -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson "In my world, there are people in chains and you can ride them like ponies" The alternative Willow, Buffy the Vampire Slayer

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Re: [B7L] Trust
by Marian de Haan 26 May '01

26 May '01

Leia wrote... >The 'not like us' implies Vila doesn't trust easily (and usually with good reason). He doesn't seem to even trust the rest of the crew demonstrated especially in City at the Edge of the World where he seems quite willing to believe that the others would let Tarrant chuck him off the ship and later is too frightened to swallow the tracer.< I always thought Tarrant's words meant that he could pick up Vila and haul him to the airlock before the others could intervene, rather than that they would stand by and let him kill Vila. Marian

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Re: [B7L] Language (was Geography (was: Eclectic))
by Anna Simpson 26 May '01

26 May '01

At 19:51 25/05/01 -0600, you wrote: >Well, I've always (always means for at least the past five minutes when >it comes to B7 theories) figured that B7 and Star Trek spun off of the >same 'history.' At any rate, they both had more or less the same WW III >(or maybe WW Nth). After that, the histories diverged. I remember reading a suggestion from someone, somewhere that 'Star Trek' is the viscast propaganda made by the B7 Federation to demonstrate to the citizens what a wonderful job Space Command is doing out there >Ellynne love Anna

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baycon
by Julia Jones 26 May '01

26 May '01

Reporting in from Silicon Valley, only I've actually gone home for the night, seeing as I live about 20 minutes drive from the con hotel. Managed to catch up with Helen and Mr Helen, who were doing a Servalan and Avon costume number for the Regency dance. Also wandered along to the filk session, where I found Jane Mailander, late of the B7 parish. A large number of towels were in evidence, and there were several gentlemen clad in their dressing gowns. There were one or two mundanes in the hotel - I know, because I got picked on by one of them to try and explain what was going on. And I wandered into the panel on how Silicon Valley types cope when moving out of the Valley to low-tech areas, where I made myself unpopular by remarking "but we've had that in England for the last couple of years" to someone's burbling about how you'll soon be able to press a button on your cellphone, it'll work out where you are, and you'll get a listing of where the nearest pizza outlets are. -- Julia Jones "Science is not about building a body of known 'facts'. It is a method for asking awkward questions and subjecting them to a reality-check, thus avoiding the human tendency to believe whatever makes us feel good." - The Science of Discworld

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Language (was Geography (was: Eclectic))
by Ellynne G. 26 May '01

26 May '01

On Fri, 25 May 2001 17:16:09 -0600 Otis Lou Bohr <pd(a)powersurfr.com> writes: > At 10:14 AM 5/25/01 -0400, Susan Beth wrote: > > >What's worse, I don't think I'm outside the American norm in this > matter. > >Says a lot for our schooling, eh? > > On the other hand Americans' obliviousness to everything outside > their > borders is the Canadian media's primary source of humour (;-p). Oh, come on, we all know about England. It's that place, you know, kind of east of Nantucket. And weren't they, like, connected with the British somehow? And, oh yeah, Mel Gibson fought them back in the 12th century when they were trying to take over Australia beyond Thunderdome. > ObB7, um...do you suppose everyone speaks with British accents > because > North America and Australia got wiped out somehow (but English--the > language--continued taking over the world), or at some point did the > North > Americans etc. all start affecting a British accent in order to > sound cool? Well, I've always (always means for at least the past five minutes when it comes to B7 theories) figured that B7 and Star Trek spun off of the same 'history.' At any rate, they both had more or less the same WW III (or maybe WW Nth). After that, the histories diverged. Common set up: End of war, big messes everywhere. Western hemisphere (probably North America in particular) with more surface resources - higher survival of key personnel, probably more culturally intact (though possibly not politically), etc (etc meaning other stuff that might be important in this scenario that I haven't thought of yet). Eastern hemisphere had fewer surface resources but more deep ones - food production and energy resources, means to reestablish social order and keep it going for the long term (good or bad being up in the air). In Trek, North America invents warp, contacts friendly aliens, and gets access to the deep resources it needs before mass famines, local feuds, and all that other post-nuclear loveliness manages to destroy everything. A language descended from American English becomes dominant (heavily influenced by Spanish and possibly Portuguese [I also like to think that the Navajo, being one of the larger tribes and centered in a remote area (albeit kind of near certain nuclear testing grounds) came through OK and managed to leave their mark on the linguistic pie]). So, they might not _really_ be speaking English. In B7, there was either no warp or no friendly aliens. The Eastern hemisphere became dominant while the West Side fell into decline. Obviously, the British Isles were a center of light and learning, so their language became the lingua franca. I'd still like to toss in a few touches like heavy Slavic influences. Glottal inhalants make my throat sore, so I'd minimize certain African languages. If Arabic allows for sarcasm, it's in. By the same rule, there's obviously been very little language impact from the far east (besides, the one character who had an accent from around there complained that he lacked the connections for advancement. We can make a case for that not being the fashionable quarter of the planet). So, their language probably isn't really English either. But they're both similar enough for translation purposes. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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