Blakes7

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5511 discussions

Re: [B7L] We can't *all* be geniuses
by Jenny Kaye 16 May '01

16 May '01

Alison Page wrote: > >Jenny said - > > > > >>what the writer says goes. > > > >It doesn't correspond to the reality of the production process either. Yes it does. > >The 'writer' is in many ways the lowliest member of the production team, and > >the one most likely to be over-ruled. We are talking about B7 here. During that period the writer was king. Terry Nation created the series, he wrote the entire first season. It was script edited by Chris Boucher. If you take an original script and compare it to the episode you will see that the changes are insignificant. There is a joke to this effect in > >'Shakespeare in Love' for example (I know a joke isn't proof, but the joke > >was written by Harold Pinter, and he obviously felt it would have resonance > >with people watching the film). That was a film made in the 1990's, you quite clearly know very little about British television production during the 1970's. And Shakespeare in Love, however entertaining a film, is not a Shakespearian play either. There is going to be a screen-writers > >strike (well, actually I think it has been called off) in Hollywood, this > >summer, specifically about this very issue. So I've heard. Good for them. So literally millions of > >dollars > >are resting on the fact that no definitive answer has ever been provided to > >this issue. THIS IS FILM IN AMERICA 20 YEARS AFTER BLAKE'S 7 WAS MADE. > >In the realm of TV the situation is slightly different, IT WAS TOTALLY DIFFERENT. but if anything in > >a > >multi-authored production like B7 Season 1 was not multi-authored. we can be even less confident that the > >product represents a single unified vision, where all ends have been tied, > >and no ambiguity remains. Oh there are some ambiguities, but there are good reasons for that. If we manage to go through the entire four seasons together I'll point them out to everyone exactly what was happening. > >I think the relationship between script and finished product is a > >complicated one, whether we are talking about theatre, TV or film. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. The three are very different. The > >relationship between such finished product (play, TV show or whatever) and > >'truth' is also a very complex one. No, truth is very simple. > > These are my opinions. IMO if you like. No I don't like. > >You may disagree with my opinions, I disagree with them because you are wrong. but it is an objective fact that many > >informed people have over the years put forward a *range* of opinions. Yes, but using your criteria these books just contain a collection of letters on a page. > >There > >are hundreds of books on the subject. How many have you read? And how many were on British television of the 1970s, not American films? That is what I am emphasising, not my > >own particular opinion, That is not true, and it contradicts your "IMO" above. but that many different opinions exist, and have > >intellectual credence even among people who disagree with them. This is just waffle. > >So we are dealing with a situation where the very premises of debate: who > >is > >the auteur, who has control over the finished product, where does meaning > >rest (with the author or the viewer or elsewhere) are themselves far from > >being decided. More psycho conditioning. People avoid dealing with issues by pretending that the issues cannot be resolved. We don't have to dredge up all these heavy issues, every > >time > >we discuss Blake's 7 (thank god) By using IMO that's exactly what you are doing. By talking about B7 that is exactly what you are doing. we just have to be a bit tolerant of > >differences of opinion, because we have each of us built our case on > >shifting sands. That is simply not true, and all I have to do is look in my mail box (28 on this issue) to see that differences of opinion are frowned upon here. By hiding behind "IMO" and "my version" and saying that every version is valid, people are avoiding the real issue, which is how much reference these "versions" have to what is onscreen. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Space Fall
by M 16 May '01

16 May '01

> > > > > But isn't that what equality is all about? > > Jacqui > __________________________________________________________________ Actually when I saw it I thought he was speaking for both Jenna and Avon. Bringing up equality, though, I did find it particularly good. However just watched Orac and when Servalan screams, OK shes in danger, but then gets all upset. I think it would have been better if she'd got a gun and shot the creature. Then looked at it, at Travis and said some quip that was chilling to the bone and made Travis hurry up getting through the rocks. M. _______________________________________________________ Get 100% private, FREE email for life from Excite UK Visit http://inbox.excite.co.uk/

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Re: [B7L] Re: Space Fall
by M 16 May '01

16 May '01

It's > also interesting that Jenna is sent over to the Liberator (and a high > assumed probability of death) with the two men without any comment either > from Leylan or, for that matter, from Blake. > Also when they're sent Blake says this is the other option to execution, so they have no quarms about killing a woman. I think on Blake's side he doesn't complain, because they might have killed her if he'd said she shouldn't go. M. _______________________________________________________ Get 100% private, FREE email for life from Excite UK Visit http://inbox.excite.co.uk/

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Re: text and delivery
by Helen Krummenacker 16 May '01

16 May '01

> Jenny said of the unimportance of the actor's interpretation:He may emphasise the line in a particular way. This does not modify the > line. > "And that makes it all worthwhile." Avon really deeply relied on Vila's approval, and vice versa. Uh-huh.

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Re:Space Fall, Jenna's whisper
by Helen Krummenacker 16 May '01

16 May '01

> >RAIKER: Why make it hard on yourself? > > Raiker is smiling. He thinks he's made a conquest. After all, a woman > prisoner is a perk of the job. > > >JENNA: Why indeed? > >[Whispers something to Raiker] > > She stands back and smirks. > > >[Raiker slaps her across the face] > > I wonder what she said? My money is on "I'm a lesbian" :-) It gives a nice > double meaning to Raiker's next line: > Oh, I think an insult would fit better. Something like "As if you could make it hard on me." with emphasis on words making it clear she's questioning his manly functions. Or possibly saying how nice it is of him to volunteer to satisfy the male prisoners.

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Re: Blake
by Helen Krummenacker 16 May '01

16 May '01

> Sally said: Blake doesn't lash out *physically* in anger (verbally, he can dismember > with the best of them) because he does have that ability to divorce the > action from the emotion. One of my own personal fanonical rules - "Blake > Would Never, Ever, Ever so much as Raise a Hand to Avon. And Avon Knows It," > - was a straight reaction to a string of fanfic where Blake was portrayed as > endlessly losing his temper and beating up on Avon, because I simply don't > see him ever doing that to *any* of his crewmates > While I feel that his personality is such he would not cuff them about, there is also a very pragmatic reason for him to refrain from violence. He leads by their consent; there is nothing to keep them from mutiny should he behave badly. And even if the entire crew thought he was justified in kicking Avon's backside, Blake would know there would, sooner or later, be a misfire of a weapon, or a teleport accident.

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Re: [B7L] Debate and Dead Horses
by Deborah Day 16 May '01

16 May '01

This email was delivered to you by The Free Internet, a Business Online Group company. http://www.thefreeinternet.net --------------------------------------------------------------- > >I'll tell you something else this email reveals. You are a long term B7 fan. >And you've either been directly in contact with other fans or you have been >on this lyst before. I think it's both. Interesting thought. I can't for the life of me remember who it was now, but somebody unsubscribed with a flourish early in the year and somebody else said they had come back under a different name and to wait and see. Sorry to be so vague but I expect some of you can remember more than I can about those flame days and mass unsubscribing. Debbie

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Re: crimes and punishment
by Helen Krummenacker 16 May '01

16 May '01

> >Helen wrote about the Federation administration: > > > >They fear political crimes so much they > > > >would rather covertly slaughter large groups than try to brainwash > > > >them. > > And Jenny responded >Why spend money brainwashing these people? It's only the leaders that need > brainwashing and that's only so the Federation can use them as political > pawns. > When a government would spend money on a surgical implant on a killer, and pay the high cost of transportation to send convicted criminals to planets like Cygnus Alpha, one assumes there is a high need for labor that makes it worthwhile for the government to pay for these things. I would be surprised if brainwashing is very much more expensive than convict transport. However, it could be considered more reliable, as dead men do not throw off their shackles. > >

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[B7] Debate?
by heather wheeler 16 May '01

16 May '01

Some lystians seem quite absurd! By insults and pleas undeterred they keep on and on 'till all reason has gone determined to have the last word

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Episode review - space fall
by Iain Walker 16 May '01

16 May '01

This is a continuation of "not what happened, exactly, but more what grabbed my interest" style of episode reviews I started last week with TWB. Space Fall (why do I think of Mark E. Smith every time I see this title :-), I can almost hear him droning the words now!) Gan is the next crewmember we see, standing in profile in front of Blake and Jenna (so we just know he will be involved somehow ;-)). Once again we are told of the societal decay (prevelant in late 70's UK) by the captain of the London when he says in a very resigned way "nobody bothers anymore.". This attitude was also shown by the computer technician in TWB who is quite happy to be listening to music instead of working. These are simply reflections of the times B7 was made where the commonly held view was that indolence was at its height (with respect to "working") and management was completely incompetent (not able to see what was going on or providing any encouragement to reduce these attitudes). Finally we get to see Avon for the first time. Interestingly, Vila already knows Avon (or at least knows about him). But we never get another hint of backstory for these two. Vila certainly becomes Avons only friend (even before Blake leaves, they are good pals who do naughty things to gether like secretly going out gambling), and visa-versa (well . until a certain episode in season 4 .). Jenna shows her "space captain" background. She knows that the company (actually, its the civil administration - maybe the prison ships owners are on contract to the CA and the contract allows the ship to use CA authority?) is on a fixed price contract to run the prison ship. There is speculation that their bodies could just be dumped in space and the company just pockets the cash. So there must be some sort of system of checks and balances here - i.e. the federation does not like to get ripped off - it wants the services it has paid for, otherwise this is exactly what they would do. The "prisons for profit" idea turned out to be a good prophesy for 20 years into the future though (by this I mean 2001, not 20 years into the B7 future)! Another good bit for Jenna is that she can tell that the drives for the ship need repair (too bad that in later episodes she looses all this knowledge about space flight :-(). The criminals on this ship are all pasty faced middle aged guys none of whom look like a menace to society! But it could all be the suppressant drugs. Maybe this is a ship full of guys who pulled banking scams or insurance fraudsters. And on the subject of money, what is a credit worth? Raiker says the Liberator is worth millions. Avon's 5 million fraud is supposed to be unbelieveable wealth. Based on these two facts I think a credit must be worth about a million pounds (or dollars). But this contradicts later episodes (a ten credit ouch becomes very expensive). Probably there were currency devaluations ??? Time zooms by in this episode because Blake tells Avon he has had four months to think about his plan to fake the running log (did they avoid the food and water for four months to not be drugged? This doesn't make sense to me). The timeline in this episode is hard to follow - but I take this to imply that the London is near the end of its flight at this time (which means something is wrong later in the episode!). During the "space battle" scenes we find out that quite sensibly that the London has seat belts. This is a step up from the Liberator (unless those round things on the Liberator seats are to suck the occupant in) and most other fictional space ships. Other nice "spacey" touches are teh requirement to get clearance to fly (just like in a real airplane) and the reference to "spacemet" who track space conditions, like meteorite showers. And Jenna says hyperdrive running is expensive. There aren't that many SF shows where space ships that cost money to run, just like IRL. Plus the sealing gel is a great idea. We are made to "dislike" Ryker as the captain of the London glares at him when he panics about the scanners. Of course Ryker must be a weak and scared bully. And the captain wishes he could get better staff - like Arix, who is studying so he can get a better job! Then lots of action as the ship is taken over. But why are the crew so lax about safety when the show is being bashed by shockwaves, they are sahring conjouring tricks with Vila. A good bit is Gan saying "we only need the hand". Vila drops the gun - what a nervous Nellie - but why entrust him with the gun in the first place - this is simply bad management. The scenes between Blake and Avon in the computer control room really sizzle. I love the "What a fiasco.." from Avon. There is more of the "other side" of federation life in this episode with the scenes between the crew members of the London. Even though he works for a private company in the employ of the federation the captain is shown to be a "good" man. He says he wants no unnecessary violence, saves Jenna from molestation, remains calm during the space battle scenes and the rebellion, he isn't stupid, he doesn't like Raiker, he is not prepared to allow Raiker to get away with the "you said I could" defence, etc., etc. (I bet he is a good shot too, we don't get to find out. Better yet - a great cook). Too bad he didn't join the crew to help prevent their many failures. They should have brought him back instead of Tarrant. He certainly showed the potential to turn against the federation. Without Raiker sending them across they would never have got the Liberator - it was his idea to use them. A bit lucky, eh? Also - I would never have sent the pilot Jenna over to the other ship. The Liberators "mind probe" self defense is a bit silly (how is it supposed to work - will it scan a mind and find out if it is from the system? But why is this security system stopped by Blake shooting it - isn't that rather obvious), but it gives us more insight to the mind tampering in Blake's head. He knows the detected memories are false. The administrations mind tampering is what allows him t o fight the mind control. In effect the federation created their own problem in Blake & the Liberator. - Iain W. P.S. Polish those tennis shoes, true belivers, its Cygnus Alpha next.

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