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5511 discussions

surveillance systems
by Nathan Hook 01 Apr '01

01 Apr '01

Julia wrote: 2001, and everywhere I go on the rail network and the London Underground, there are security cameras "for the protection of our customers and staff". Large notices drew my attention to the presence... Interestingly here in NZ, my brother was working on a camera surveillance system which operated for service stations. the camera's could flick between the activiation of the till, and the operator using it, to a system we have in nz called eftpos at pump. you put in your "eftpos"(electronic funds transfer point of sale) card and pay for it at the pump. the camera system would flick to that pump, recording all the transactions and general pedestrian movement. They looked at systems in the UK, as bench marks and were very impressed with the traffic system that oversaw vehicle movement in London. aparently you can not get, I forget exactly how far the radius is now, but i think it was 50 miles, within London centre "without" being seen by a camera. Naturally the system has proven itself, with stolen vehicles being tracked and the "biggie" for the authorities the capture of IRA bomb vehicles. the BBC will be wondering if the system was down a few weeks back, but I suppose you have to know the vehicle you're after before you can look for it in the camera system. it's all very interesting. More to the snooping point I think, is the UK's government allowing MI5 to snoop on emails(i'm not sure if it's in law there yet). The NZ government is considering the same thing and a friend of mine has made a submission to the NZ parliament as a result. it's a fundamental invasion of privacy.(a bench mark case here in nz with regards to snooping, was a university lecturer who caught two SIS gentleman ransaking his house. He chased them over the back fence and he managed to get the licence plate number of the car they sped off in. they traced the vehicle back to an empty building here in Wellington, which had connections with the NZ Police. They wouldn not say anything and prosuctions for trespass aparently couldn't be brought. the court system had other ideas and a precedence was set...very very interesting, although individual SIS men (not to be confused with the SAS) were not convicted the court ruled that such ventures against private citizens was a breach of civil rights! . The SIS advertised for positions the other day, for field officers. one had to go through psychological testing and extensive background checks. I wonder if leaping fences 101 was part of the training course. I was going to apply for laughs, but I did that for another job instead and got it...I'll be more careful in future about which job I apply for for laughs next time.) Julia mentioned the definition of "criminal". This is precisely the justification given for the introduction of the email snoop legislation. One MP was quoted as saying that criminals are increasingly using email to conduct their operations and ordinary citizens need fear nothing...hello? Prove it and who decides just who is a criminalby definition? The whole bill is fraught with problems...infact its manifestly problematic and there's no guarantee that the ability to snoop on emails will increase the efficiency of the police to catch criminals anyway. where's the justification? If we're not careful it will be like East Germany. One third of the population reporting on the other two thirds and every phone call tapped and recorded looking for "key" words. the "snooper bowl" theme that you were referring to, i didn't realise that was occuring in the uk as well. I saw a doco on the technology used at the american super bowl to match a data base of known criminals...which was amazing. isn't it amazing how the fiction in SF suddenly parrallels real life. you have to admire SF writers like Terry Nation and Arthur C. Clark then... 'Open the pod bay doors please Hal.' Nathan. Nothings so difficult as a beginning/ In poesy, unless perhaps the end. Byron. ------------------------------------------------------------ Free, BeOS-friendly email accounts: http://BeMail.org/ Free Peepshow - http://twinfusion.com/comic/peep/

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Re: [B7L] zine editing
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 31 Mar '01

31 Mar '01

How original signing back on under a new ID. *yawn*

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food snobbery ?
by Roger the Shrubber 31 Mar '01

31 Mar '01

Tavia wrote -- I'd guess organic or free-range foods are consumed as often because they're more expensive (and 'therefore' better) as for environmental or animal rights reasons. <and then quotes> Bercol: I wish I'd known that this was going to drag on so. I'd have brought my own chef. As I recall, Space Command's cuisine is appalling. Servalan: Pathetic! *************************************** I had a different take on this - to me, Servie wasn't talking about food at all, she was making a general comment about the quality of these Bercol & Rontane as adversaries. They were vaguely plotting against her and in her opinion they stood no chance of beating her at political manoeverings. After all she had all the aces (except for prior knowledge of daring rebel hit & run attack of course.) and when Bercol starts twittering about food, her disrespect becomes contempt and can't help but blurting out "Path-ET-ic". darren r Ebook - "How To Start Your Own Internet Bookshop" For info, send blank email to bookshop(a)fastfacts.net ------------------------------------------------------------- Opportunity Knocks Bookshop http://www.abebooks.com/home/POWERPLAY/

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Re: Ethics and Hal Mellanby (was [B7L] zine editing)
by Tavia 31 Mar '01

31 Mar '01

Fiona wrote: >Mellanby's ethics may seem to be pure, selfless and >pacifist -- but this obscures the fact that Mellanby's >actions betray his selfless and pacifist line. A fact further obscured by his colour and disability. If one's allowed to make such non-PC remarks. Tavia

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actors and artwork
by Steve Rogerson 31 Mar '01

31 Mar '01

Shane said: "since the B7 actors apparently do not feel OK with artwork" To my knowledge only Paul Darrow and Gareth Thomas have said this. If you know of other B7 actors that have made similar declarations, I would be interested to know. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption 03, 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent The 25th Anniversary Blake's 7 Convention The 10th Anniversary Babylon 5 Convention http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Re: Interpretation (fading into Canon, again)
by Tavia 31 Mar '01

31 Mar '01

Fiona wrote: >Neil spoke about how some people (himself >apparently included) do exclude certain episodes they don't like from their >own "altercanon." Interesting why some people choose to exclude certain episodes, or indeed to like others. 'Dawn of the Gods' (which I think was the episode that Neil was excluding?) isn't one of my favourites (in fact I suspect it made it into my 5 least favourites) but I wouldn't see that as a reason to exclude it. I could see two different possible reasons: first, that the Auron background doesn't fit too well with 'Children of Auron', and second, that the science is cringeworthily appalling. However, if one excluded episodes on science grounds, then one would be left with a short canon indeed... What I found in compiling my least-liked episodes list some time back now is that many, indeed most, B7 episodes have bits that I cringe over. However, nearly all of them also have bits that I enjoy. DotG has some great lines of dialogue here and there, it has some insights into particularly Tarrant's character, and then there are those trousers, I suppose... I think different people cringe over different things. Personally I really hate the naff monsters and aliens. I find it hard to watch for example, 'The Web', 'Rescue' and 'Moloch', all of which have abundant good points, simply because of this. (In the case of 'Moloch', I hardly even *see* the rest of the episode because of anticipatory cringing over *that* thing.) I also find it hard to watch 'The Way Back', an excellent episode with so many implications for the kind of fanfic I'd like to write, simply 'cos it lacks my favoured character. For whatever bundle of reasons, one ends up with a highly personal list of favourites and unfavourites, and (we've played this game on FC of late) no-one ever agrees. >I think there's truth in that, but I think there's >something more subtle to it, in that in my experience people tend to watch >the episodes they like over and over and not watch the ones they don't like. >So in a sense, while I would include, say, "Stardrive" in the canon, and if >it came up in the context of a discussion on canon I would use it, I have in >a sense excluded it from my "altercanon" in that I watch it so little that >it would probably be my *last* choice as an example in a discussion. >Basically, I think Neil's right but that the same process is often >subconscious. I agree. People tend to see the series in terms of predominantly one axis, be it characters or science fiction or politics or action/adventure or whatever. They are bound to watch more of the episodes that they enjoy, because they feature that axis predominantly, and thus perhaps come to a distorted view of the series as a whole. In the interests of trying to keep the whole series in mind and developing characterisations for fanfic based on the on-screen versions, I've watched the whole lot twice within the past year, but I must admit, in between the prescribed viewings, the episodes I really like just kept on creeping in (my 'Star One' to 'Animals' ratio is about 5:1). Tavia

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RE: [B7L] surveillance cameras
by Louise Rutter 31 Mar '01

31 Mar '01

Una wrote: >I guess not owning or travelling all that often by car protects me from most of >this, but I'm sure station platforms have plenty of surveillance cameras in >operation, not to mention the tube. Those don't worry me personally, I'm with Tavia that I'd rather have them there. Likewise the cameras in ATM machines if they help to catch the thieving bastard who stole my credit cards last month. Louise

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Sorry!
by Fiona Moore 31 Mar '01

31 Mar '01

Two versions of the Mellanby response went out, due to an error in the drafts folder. The second one is the more complete version, so please disregard the first :). As for Tavia's comment about there already being ep-of-the-month discussions on FC: fair enough, but since the Lyst seems to be taking over one of FC's activities in the fanfic-posting department, why not extend it out in other directions too? Fiona The Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane More posts for your money at http://nyder.r67.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: [B7L] zine editing
by Fiona Moore 31 Mar '01

31 Mar '01

>From: "Jenny Kaye" <jennycat55(a)hotmail.com> >Carol Hondo wrote > >>At 10:37 30/03/01, you wrote: >> >Carol wrote: >> > >> >> >Is everyone as grateful as you, that is the point? >> >> >> >>IMHO, in a word, YES!!!!! >> > >> >Oh well, if you want to look at porn, however unethically and >>hurtfully >> >produced, then I'm not one to stop you. >> > >> >Shane >> > >> >"You're pathetic!" --Blake >> >> >>"I seldom comment on other people's ethics." - Avon >> >>Sorry, couldn't resist, as soon as I read this reply >>to my post, this scene from Aftermath sprung to mind :-) > >Considering who said that, and what happened to him, and what >happened to >the man he was talking to, that's ironic. > >Jenny Let's deconstruct that scene from Aftermath, in view of this remark. In this scene, Dayna is arguing with her father. He won't let her use fatal weapons against the Sarren; she points out that they have been designing weaponry intended to kill, and asks what the point is of making such weaponry and not using it, effectively accusing her father of being a hypocrite. She appeals to Avon for support, and he says "I seldom comment on other people's ethics"-- meaning not that he has not *formed* an opinion of Mellanby's ethics, but that he is not going to comment on whether or not Mellanby's decision is hypocritical-- a wise decision, since at the moment he is dependant on Mellanby for food and shelter. Later on, however, we learn a bit more about Mellanby's ethics. Mellanby led a revolt which took the Federation three weeks to suppress; his wife and friends died in the process. He survived, it is not clear how, other than that he had "a chance of saving Dayna" and took it-- and that Servalan asks him whether he feels guilty. Servalan would not say this had she not believed that this remark would hit home, all of which imply that there could be something ethically suspect in his having survived-- his attempt to justify this in terms of saving his daughter rings a bit hollow, considering that he was apparently well prepared to sacrifice the rest of his family in the revolt. In addition, Servalan calls him a coward; this term has a double meaning for the viewer, as it could refer not only to his sacrifice of the rest of the group, but his failure to face up to his actions later. One might also ask, like Dayna, just what Mellanby thinks he is doing making weapons of destruction at all. Why not confine himself to nonfatal weaponry, or turn his talents to something less destructive? If Mellanby thinks he can control the release of the weaponry; he is kidding himself; he can't even stop his daughter running riot with a bow and arrow (and killing quite a number of people in the process). What is he going to do-- hand out his armoury saying "don't use this to kill anyone unless your own life is threatened," to every person who takes a gun? You can imagine what their response would be: both barrels. After all, when Mellanby it is killed, it is with one of his own guns--and due to him having turned away from his enemy. Furthermore, when he realises that he is now free to leave the place where he has been in exile for fifteen years, he can't think of any place to go--which begs the question of what he has been doing all these years. Passively sitting around raising his daughters, tinkering with guns and failing to come to terms with the past? Certainly not thinking about the future, of how to carry on what he has begun, and not even, apparently, considering the possibility that he might have another chance someday. Doesn't speak well of him as a member of the resistance, it must be said. So when Avon remarks that he never comments on anyone's ethics, the comment is made by this very exclusion. Mellanby's ethics may seem to be pure, selfless and pacifist-- but this obscures the fact that Mellanby's actions betray his selfless and pacifist line. Later on, Avon's cold remark upon Mellanby's death--"He got away from here after all"--passes final judgement on Mellanby's actions. Avon may not directly call Mellanby a hypocrite, but through the course of the episode, his actions speak louder than Avon's words. Fiona The Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane Running guns to the rebels at http://nyder.r67.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: [B7L] Nonfic on the Lyst
by Tavia 31 Mar '01

31 Mar '01

Fiona suggested: >Say every month we pick a B7 episode, >and people who feel like talking about it, do. This already happens on FC. Tavia

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