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5511 discussions

RE: [B7L] reasons
by Louise Rutter 25 Mar '01

25 Mar '01

Shane wrote: >it has also been said that slash denies gay identity (i.e. >the stories along the lines of "Blake's not gay, he just has sex with Avon") That depends very much on who's writing/reading the slash. As far as I'm concerned, if two male characters are having sex with one another, they're both bisexual to some degree (since they almost all have canonical het relationships - Blake's a real exception here but then I'm not into B/A) >and doesn't give much of a voice to lesbians No, that gets left to the f/f ers, they are out there. >or address the real political issues which I'm sure gay people face even in a future society. I know, >it's all a fantasy, but IMO it raises some disturbing questions about RL politics. Again, that depends on the writer. True, you won't find much of it in B7 because we have no idea what the Federation attitudes to homosexuality were (or the Auron attitudes or anybody else's), but there is some good slash out there from modern-day set series that does cover the problems of attitudes and homophobia. It's vastly out-numbered by the PWPs and the romances, I'll grant you, but some of the better writers tackle it. Louise

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Re: [B7L] reasons
by Alison Page 25 Mar '01

25 Mar '01

Shane and Fiona effectively made the same point I think - >But this isn't getting rid of the feelings of shame though, it's just >displacing them. I like the idea that women should feel more relaxed about their own feelings, but we don't live in a world of perfect political struggle. People want to enjoy themselves, and there has to be room for both challenging the conventions of society (for them that want to) and fun. And people have to have fun in ways that accommodate the imperfections of the world we actually live in. We can't wait until everything is right before we start enjoying ourselves. Of course, it is quite possible that 'even in a perfect world where everyone were equal' women would still fantasise about good looking men getting it on, just as a 'holiday' from real life, which is probably always going to be a bit stressful even in the best of all worlds. >But is it still deemed 'bad' if a gay man does it? To women, in general, I'd say not (though there are obvious exceptions). I think women generally feel much less anxiety around male sexual expression than around their own, and that extends to gay men. This is just my impression. Alison

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Re: FC: Redemption '01 Blake's XI v Babylon XI cricket report (a bit long)
by Mac4781＠aol.com 25 Mar '01

25 Mar '01

> BLAKE'S XI v BABYLON XI > At Outer Galle, February 24, 25, 2262. Babylon XI won by three > wickets. Toss: Blake's XI. This was great! > incorrectly, Blake chose to bat on a pitch which was to display > unexpected signs of seismic activity. <g> Was this in regard to the dice rolling? Did you roll dice on an uneven or unstable surface? > But the rebels made a confident > start. Tarrant hit three successive boundaries off Ivanova's opening > over and had raised 45 in ten overs with Jenna when he attempted to keep > the strike by taking a sharp single off the final ball. Lennier's swift > return to Kosh from deep extra cover saw him stranded. Go Tarrant! I appreciate his effort, even if his reckless nature led to his eventual out. > Zen soon > followed, crashing into his own stumps as he attempted to drive Marcus, What's "crashing into his own stumps"? > and the introduction of Lennier's leg-spin for the following over saw > Blake and Gan perish within four balls. Ouch. > But overconfidence undid him when he > trod on his wicket attempting a hook, and gave Lennier his third victim. Eeeks, and another out I don't understand (I fear I'm losing my cricket knowledge; it needs reinforced!)-- trod on his wicket?? > All the while, > however, Jenna had been scoring steadily, and almost unnoticed, at the > other end. That's so perfect for her character, the stealth attack style. > This brought Delenn in to join her husband Sheridan, I love the difference between B7 and B5, the B7 loners and the B5 couples. > but as Dayna hugged him, Martok pronounced that it was a bump ball. Another translation needed, please -- bump ball? > overs later, Sheridan pushed the ball back to her and she dived forward > to take a spectacular catch off her own bowling; but Martok announced > that he was uncertain as to whether it had carried and signalled for the > third umpire, Brunt, to review the vistape. I'm beginning to wonder about these umpires. If they all show up with free wormhole passes, I think an investigation is in order. ;-) > end. But Sinclair, playing a true captain's innings, reached his half- > century under the floodlights. Though I'm rooting for the Seveners, I have to admit that I like Sinclair and don't regret his success. > Zen > and Gan lasted little longer than they did the previous day, Not a good time for them to go into slumps at the stumps. > That left the Babylonians a target of 157, and they made the > worst possible start when Londo, after weaving his erratic way to the > wicket, was bowled second ball by Soolin. Am I allowed to clap for that? :) > was lbw to its third ball, and gave umpire Dukat an icy look when he > turned down her appeal. The evidence mounts! Did the rebels get any calls in their favor? > But Garibaldi lashed out for a couple of fours > and Kosh glided the winning runs. Oh no! > Asked to > comment on the umpiring controversies of the match just completed, he > said only that he would be making his own report to the Intergalactic > Cricket Council; Indeed! This was wonderful, Harriet. You put it together in most entertaining and exciting fashion. Thanks. Carol

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Re: [B7L] Women of No Importance
by Shane Little 25 Mar '01

25 Mar '01

Neil wrote: >Guest characters ran the whole gamut, from the distinctly underclad (eg >Inga, Avalon) Let's be fair to Avalon, that outfit wasn't her choice. Shane "It works!" --Travis Who needs Cupid? Matchmaker.com is the place to meet somebody. FREE Two-week Trial Membership at http://www.matchmaker.com/home?rs=200015

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Re: [B7L] Review: Parodies Lost
by Tavia 25 Mar '01

25 Mar '01

Kathryn asked: >I bought this at Redemption -- does anyone >know how to get it by mail-order? One can now buy Parodies Lost together with the other zines out at Redemption (ttba, The Way Forward: Crusades of Blake, and a couple of adult-only zines) at Judith's site http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7/ Tavia http://www.viragene.com/ (which now has a long review of ttba by Ika)

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Re: [B7L] Women of No Importance
by Tavia 24 Mar '01

24 Mar '01

Neil wrote: >The costumes for the female regulars were, on the whole, >neither particularly figure-hugging nor particularly revealing > .... Jenna might have 'accidentally' exposed a bit of cleavage >on occasion (though I had to have that pointed out to me), >but not terribly often. Cally didn't, but then she didn't exactly >have much to expose. Cally might be cleavage-lite, but she certainly exposed rather long and shapely legs in some of her outfits (the floaty white one with the ?black lycra cat-suit affair springs to this mind). Tavia

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Re: [B7L] Biology, culture and the crush
by Fiona Moore 24 Mar '01

24 Mar '01

Harriet: >somehow I rather doubt the Beeb were promoting "I >Claudius" as a source of sexual fantasy > <Then why did they have those barebreasted dancing girls in the first few minutes?> I said "promoting." The dancing girls didn't appear in the adverts, did they :)? <Oh! I just heard a joke about Blake's 7 on Radio 4. Not a very good one.> <wincing in anticipation> Dare I ask? Fiona The Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane Available for public perusal at http://nyder.r67.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: [B7L] Request For Comment - Lyst Culture Guide
by Tavia 24 Mar '01

24 Mar '01

Mistral wrote: >Ideal to whom? I find the Lyst a welcome refuge from the fluff and chat >of my other groups. and: >Er. One person's fun and friendly is another person's fluffy and >emotionally invasive. Well, I've just done the late-at-night equivalent of walk round the block and I still think this is an incredibly hurtful thing to say. Tavia

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Re: [B7L] Biology, culture and the crush
by Fiona Moore 24 Mar '01

24 Mar '01

In a message dated 3/20/01 12:53:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, nydersdyner(a)yahoo.co.uk writes: << Um, well, debatable. I'm not sure, for instance, that anybody particularly expected Patrick Stewart to become a sex symbol, and frankly I consider Bela Lugosi a very good actor, but I think very few people would choose him as a sex partner even if he weren't forty years in the grave :).<< <By the standards of the 1930's era when he first hit the public eye as "Dracula", first in the theatrical play and then the movie, he was regarded as very exotic-looking, continental and sexy, particularly in Europe. Standards of screen heart-throb have changed many times in the 70 years since.> Hm, perhaps the wrong example to use then... perhaps, say, Trevor Cooper or Marty Feldman, both good actors but I don't think either of them have ever been considered heartthrobs (yes, alright, I'm sure somebody fancies them, but neither of them's going to be playing the Sheik of Araby anytime...) >>Furthermore, actors' desirability and their acting ability are not fixed factors: Peter Cushing started out playing young hunky heroes, but is better known for the sinister villains he played in his fifties onwards, and the actors who seem to inspire the biggest crushes are not always the ones with the best acting/imitating abilities (witness Leonardo DiCaprio).<< <Absolutely right. Some fans go ga-ga over Brad Pitt, who looks as ugly as sin to others.> Actually I was talking about acting talent there-- and I'm not sure even his fans will claim that he has any :). < but the media does tend to try and steer our tastes into convenient marketing trends with respect to popular celebrities. 'Steering the crush', if you will. > Well, yes and no. The success of Patrick Stewart, Whoopi Goldberg etc. suggest that sometimes it's the other way around. <One result has been the disgustingly thin actress which has now become the studio norm.> Actually, I can't think of *any* studio standard of feminine beauty that wasn't unhealthy... the Forties gave us the fuller figure, it's true, but it was one trussed up in corsets and perched on impossible shoes. Fiona The Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane Available for public perusal at http://nyder.r67.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: [B7L] Women of No Importance
by Shane Little 24 Mar '01

24 Mar '01

Dana Wrote: > Neil, entering the dialogue between Shane and me: > > > I'm with Shane on this one. Costumes for the women were pretty much on a > > par with those for the men. Most of them were bloody awful:) > Oscar Wilde said that when he was traveling through the mining camps, he > saw a sign in a saloon: "Don't shoot the piano player, he is doing the best > he can." He said it was the only honest art criticism he had ever seen. > No matter what the effect was, I'm pretty sure they were trying to > appeal to that section of the audience that likes watching attractive > women in outfits from the Reduced Wardrobe Company. You don't watch too many other series I take it. By the standards of ST:TOS, Lexx, Farscape and mid-eighties Doctor Who, Jenna, Cally and company may as well be wearing Victorian ballgowns. > > As for tightness of garb, wasn't it a person of the male phenotype who got > > to wear the close-fitting pantalons rouges of tanned hide? > ...of course there are other constituencies in the audience as well. Who shouldn't be ignored. > > Plenty of reasons to go for slash, really. If anything it's amazing het > > gets a look in. > Except that I'd guess that nearly all slashwriters have had the > experience of being women having sex with men (even if they later > gave it up as a bad job), so they have recent or more remote experiences > to work from. That _does_ make the dominance of slash surprising. Never thought of it like that. >No doubt there are Six Degrees of Mary Sue (like Six > Degrees of Kevin Bacon) but the most direct seems to be the combination > of the author's idealized self with her favorite character. The culture of > LOCing fiction seems to be nearly always positive and encouraging, > so the fear of being hooted at for overt Mary-Sueing doesn't seem to > be a valid one. It's interesting, since Mary Sue is an idealised version of the writer, that slash art consists of idealised versions of the actors. > > > I don't think that's true. As for the background, can't you always > invent > > > some? The less you're constrained by background, the more you can make > > up... > You have to care in the first place, and I've never been able to think of > anything really interesting for either Jenna or Cally. Yes, but you're just one writer (although a prolific one)... what about the others? >And this from the > only person in world history to write three--THREE--Blake/Servalans. Impressive. > > I would disagree with Dana that the female characters had relatively > > underdeveloped backgrounds. Blake and Avon might have got more than most, > > but we probably know at least as much about Cally and Jenna as we do about > > Vila and Tarrant, and no more about Gan than we do about Soolin. > "R is no worse than S" is not always an endorsement--it depends on how > bad S is. No, but it puts things in perspective, doesn't it? Shane "Og, you sure are a big boy" --Dayna Who needs Cupid? Matchmaker.com is the place to meet somebody. FREE Two-week Trial Membership at http://www.matchmaker.com/home?rs=200015

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