--- Steve Rogerson steve.rogerson@mcr1.poptel.org.uk wrote: <Fiona quoted me thus:
and there is just as much evidence for
homosexual as there is for heterosexual relationships between the characters,
for some reason missing out the last few words of the sentence, which said: "that is very little with some hints">
OK, fair enough (minor accident of snippage, I'm afraid..). But it still doesn't alter my argument. It's true that there is little evidence for heterosexual relationships between the characters, but there's even less (and, I'd argue, none at all) for homosexual ones.
<Fiona said: "There is some evidence for heterosexual relationships/feelings/leanings between some of the principal characters on B7. There is no evidence of homosexual ones for these characters."
This is just a matter of interpretation, on what you see in their interactions.>
Actually, not entirely. It's also based on having read the character profiles and shooting scripts used in the series, and of having seen interviews with and spoken to various people involved in the series' creation. I believe in reading shows in context.
<You later suggest Bounty and Hostage as showing examples of Blake's heterosexuality, but I don't see that. In Bounty he made no significant response to Tyce's obvious attraction to him and the kiss with Inga in Hostage can be interpreted in many ways - she's family after all.>
I'm going to quote here, in case you missed it, the section in my post to Betty about Hostage and Bounty:
------- Not disagreeing about Tyce. Actually, I was thinking of the scene in which Jenna informs Blake that Tarkin (whom Blake knows to be her ex-lover) is dead, a death she herself brought about. Blake cups the side of her face with his hand, looks into her eyes and smiles at her, and says softly "Take us out of here, Jenna." She returns the smile. I think the subtext there is pretty darn clear :). Furthermore, Jenna is visibly jealous of Tyce, and Blake's reaction to this in the final scene shows that he is very much aware of Jenna's feelings.
<bit about the Inga/Blake kiss snipped>
Yes, but there's more than just the kiss there. When Inga first appears on screen, Jenna asks him who she is. Blake says "She meant a lot to me once..." They are cousins (a kin relationship which is distant enough to make a sexual relationship possible), and there doesn't seem to be any family rift; there is thus a suggestion of possible romantic involvement, or at least a "crush". At the end of the story he kisses her-- fairly chastely; he holds her hand while saying goodbye to Ashton; Jenna visibly bristles, and again Blake does not seem unaware of her reaction. -----
If you need more evidence, it can be provided.
Additionally, I'd raise the matter of "Duel." In this episode, to represent the "death of a friend" to Blake, the mysterious women pick Jenna. Not Avon. Surely, if his feelings for Avon were more affectionate than those for Jenna, he would have been the obvious choice? Even supernatural powers see Blake as straight...:).
<Your point about the interviews with the characters and creators only shows that there was no subtext intended not that it didn't exist unintentionally.>
It's worth pointing out that it's very difficult to insert a subtext that complex and subtle into a TV series of that length without an intentional effort on the part of the production team, which the interviews demonstrate did not exist. A subtext of that nature can't "exist unintentionally"; what you're actually talking about, it seems to me, is later reinterpretation of the show. Which is another thing entirely.
<But again, there is so little evidence of sexual preferences that we really do have very much a clean sheet and so can go wherever we wish.>
Again. There is no evidence of homosexual preference; there is evidence of heterosexual preference (slight in series 1 and 2; much stronger in 3 and 4). This suggests to me a direction marker to the viewer in the general direction of "straight."
<Fiona quoted me:
We know Avon is attracted to women, but that doesn't mean he isn't also attracted to men.
and responded: "Again, we see no evidence of this."
Again open to interpretation, but even if true it doesn't mean he doesn't feel such attractions. Many bisexual people hide one side of their sexuality.>
Talking from experience here :)? Anyway, my own experience of bisexual people suggests that they tend to express both sides of their sexuality, albeit at different times. Hence the term "bisexual."
<Fiona said: "in "Rescue," we get the scene where Dorian gives Avon a decidedly "cruisy" look, after making a remark about his fondness for indulging any pleasure, to which Avon responds with "you really are insane, aren't you?" A perfect opportunity for Avon to show his colours-- and what he shows is quite the opposite."
It could also mean that Avon doesn't fancy Dorian. If a man is homosexual it doesn't mean he fancies all men in the same way that a heterosexual man doesn't fancy all women.>
But what Avon says is not "sorry, don't fancy you," or "not tonight, darling." It's outright hostile. Similarly, while it's true that a heterosexual man doesn't fancy all women, I find, speaking as a woman with gay and straight male friends, that there is a decided difference between the way the gay ones and the straight ones, even if they don't fancy me, treat me.
<Fiona said about Gan, Tarrant and Vila: "All of whom actually make declarations at various times in the series supporting their heterosexuality."
Do they, when? >
Just off the top of my head:
Gan: "They killed my woman..." (Time Squad) Vila: "I like God's taste in servants..." (Cygnus Alpha, eyeing Kara); his reaction to the women in "Powerplay"; his relationship with Kerril (City...) Tarrant: his reactions towards Zeeona (Warlord), Piri (Assassin), Servalan (Sand)...
<They show at various times that they fancy women, but
that cannot be said as a declaration of heterosexuality unless they also say they don't fancy men. Being attracted to women makes no statement either way about whether they are also attracted to men.>
Now, really. Surely the absence of evidence is pretty significant? If you follow your statement through logically, then we would have to assume that every man, from Casanova through George W. Bush, who has shown affection for a woman, must also be assumed to fancy men unless they declare otherwise. Just because I like chocolate ice cream, it's a bit much to assume that I'll also like vanilla.
It's true that being attracted to women does not preclude attraction to men as well. However, if we only ever see a person being attracted to women, I think it can be taken as read which way their preferences lie.
Fiona
The Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane Available for public perusal at http://nyder.r67.net
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