Shane Little wrote:
My penguins don't read, they just eat slash.
I've got a cat who does that.
Ahem, false analogy there. Bit of a difference between political fanfic and bad food.
Ah, but that's the point -- I didn't say anything about *bad* food, I was referring to food that *I don't enjoy*. There are people who absolutely love okra. Boggles my mind, but they do. Probably the slugs, as well; after all, snails are considered a delicacy by some.
I'm saying that people should know that slash is only a small part of a vast amount of fanfic of varying quality.
Er, I think most people are well aware of that already. It's not exactly a secret.
I'm sure Neil Faulkner and the other gen writers out there are delighted to hear that their writing is boring, as compared to a PWP.
I said nothing comparing Neil's work to a PWP. (What is this thing you've got about PWPs, anyhow? It's not as though they're somehow representative of slash, after all.) However, from what little I know of Neil, I suspect he is a sufficiently mature writer to realize that no writer's work appeals to everyone, and hence there will be people who don't enjoy his, and that this is not necessarily a reflection on the quality of said writing. Yes, there probably *are* people who would like a PWP better than one of Neil's stories, and might be bored by the latter. They're allowed. There are probably also those for whom exactly the opposite is true. They're allowed. There are people who would enjoy neither Neil's work nor a PWP, and some who'd like both. Guess what? They're allowed.
It isn't an excuse though, it's the main theme of the show from ep 1 onwards, coming to an abrupt and bloody end in ep 52.
Your view of the show has been duly noted. I've already stated mine, so I won't repeat.
That _is_ politics, actually.
Oh. Well, then I guess I don't understand what you mean by "politics".
If you don't find sex interesting, why read slash?
Because I enjoy it. (Or enjoy certain, highly specific instances of it -- I'm very picky.) I don't need any other reason or justification. In my case, I'm reading it primarily for the emotional content; I can find the level and type that I want more easily in slash than in gen, usually. I tend to skim through a lot of the sex scenes because, as I said, I don't find sex in itself particularly interesting. Slash stories aren't just about sex, Shane. (Say that three times, quickly.)
Are you aware that slash and art out there has been produced which actually uses the _actors'_ names and not the characters'?
Yes, I am. There is also some about various real people who aren't actors (celebrities in other fields, mostly.)
Another reason for them and their families to object to its production.
An objection which I wholly understand and sympathize with. Making up stories about imaginary characters is called fiction; making up stories about real people is called libel. There's an intrinsic difference -- fictional characters can never know, or be hurt or embarrassed by, anything we make up about them.
But if they're presenting two characters in a gay relationship, then they _are_ writing about my lifestyle. I'm a gay man in a gay relationship. Hence my concern.
But you're not Blake, or Avon, or Vila, or Tarrant. And what about the gay men in gay relationships who like slash and don't have a problem with it? I have this sneaking suspicion that gay men -- and their "lifestyles", whatever that means -- aren't all identical. The portrayals of gay relationships in slash aren't all identical, either. Criticism of certain portrayals I can understand and appreciate -- a good critique from an informed source can be very educational.
So we're agreed then. Slash of course being out of character for straight characters.
Well, sure. But I don't think I've seen much slash about straight characters. Most stories interpret them as homosexual or bisexual. Whether that is a believable interpretation by a given writer, and for a given reader, will vary. See previous comments.
Um, sorry, but relationships between two characters _are_ their lifestyle.
*Their* lifestyle. (I just cringe using that word; my gay friends hate it, and pounce on any instance of it. Fortunately, I don't think they're reading the list.) It's not some kind of sweeping comment on "gay lifestyles". Or on yours.
But some sorts of fanfic fit the canon better than others.
Sure. So? There is no rule that fanfic must fit the canon, loosely, closely, or at all. If it directly contradicts canon -- canon being what we actually saw and heard on screen, not an individual viewer's interpretation thereof -- then it's an AU. That's fine; there's a big market for AUs. And any fanfic gets filtered through the reader's own perception of the show, so there will never be full agreement on how well an individual story agrees with canon. Nor do I see any reason why there should be.
And if there's no worth in a story beyond a quick wank, what's the point?
Maybe a quick wank *is* the point in some cases? But why would you assume that there's no other worth in the story? There's a broad, broad field between a "quick wank" and a story with a "serious message". And there's plenty of room for both, and all the stuff in between.
It's 1984 all over again-- use porn to distract the people from the real issues and stifle discussion.
Many of the most intriguing and in-depth discussions I've ever seen in fandom have been on slash lists, prompted by slash stories. If the purpose of slash stories is to "stifle discussion", all I can say is that they're failing miserably. But in general, their primary purpose is *entertainment*. Entertainment doesn't have to have a message. Sometimes it's just fun for fun's sake.
Nobody brought up right or wrong in fanfic, slash or otherwise, prior to this.
Then what's the problem? If you don't like it, don't read it. If you're trying to tell other people what *they* shouldn't read and write, then right and wrong do enter into it -- unless you're just doing it on a whim. If you don't want to read it yourself, but have no objections to other people doing so, then I wholeheartedly agree with you and we have no argument. But I did not get the impression that was what you were saying; perhaps I mistook your meaning.
If something offends you, you have a choice. Either passively sit around hoping it'll go away, or stand up and make your opinions heard. I know which I'll pick.
OK, you've done that, at least to some extent. (I'm still not sure what it is you want to happen here.) But I submit that there is a wide world of difference between not liking what someone else finds entertaining, and being oppressed and deprived of your rights. The former is simply a difference of opinion; you're not being harmed because someone else enjoys something you don't.
- Lisa
-- Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@raytheon.com Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://framecaplib.com/ From Eroica With Love: http://eroicafans.org/