----- Original Message ----- From: Fiona Moore nydersdyner@yahoo.co.uk To: moore@britishlibrary.net Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 7:58 PM Subject: Fwd: Re: [B7L] Re: in calm discussion (was Deliverance)

--- Mac4781@aol.com wrote: > From: Mac4781@aol.com

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Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: in calm discussion (was Deliverance) To: blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:39:29 EST

Perhaps so, but I don't think you are being fair. Perhaps you haven't been involved in other h/c discussions. Fans of h/c aren't just responding to the current thread, they are responding to repeated misinterpretations of the genre. This has all happened many times before. As in someone not into the genre decides to analyze what the genre is about.

Minor point of order here. I'm decidedly not unfamiliar with H/C, and neither are most of the rest of the anti-faction (see Neil's long list of examples). I've read quite a few stories in the genre, although I wouldn't call myself "into" it (just that frankly you can't *avoid* it if you're into reading fanfic)

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And the next step in the thread usually has people not into h/c telling h/c fans why they read or write h/c.

I would liken it to a non-parent telling me what parenting is all about and why I became a parent. (I have four children.)

Fair point :). However, while I'm not a parent, I am an anthropologist. As part of my professional activities, I go to groups of people of which I am not a member, and study them as an outsider. I cannot ever become a gay man who is a drag-show fan, or a German merchant banker (both subcultures which I have studied), and so my perspective on drag-show fandom and German merchant banking is quite different to theirs; however, it is generally agreed (including by the people I study) that an outsider to the culture can provide valuable insights into the culture which the insider lacks, simply by virtue of being an outsider.

I've also had a certain amount of psychological training, which is where I was coming from when I said I saw sadomasochistic elements in H/C.

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But it's not S/M, as Tavia's well-written post has explained. What I don't understand is why she would have to go into such an in-depth explanation. Why can't those who do participate in the genre say "It's not S/M" and have other fans accept that we know what we're talking about it?

First of all, Tavia's post didn't convince everyone. Second of all, let me give an example from my fieldwork. When I went into a particular bank, I noticed that there was a sharp ethnic divide-- GErman staff socialised with German staff, English with English staff. However, when I suggested this to people, they tended to say "No! No! We're all a big family!" However, when I provided concrete examples, e.g. informal seating arrangements at lunch, who went to the pub with who, etc., etc., people began to mutter "you have a point..." Just an example of how sometimes the outsider can see what the insider can't.

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I also can't understand why those who don't like h/c care to analyze it.

For my part, because I'm trying to understand.

Fiona

The Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane Available for public perusal at http://nyder.r67.net