Warning! Much incoherent character-junkie rambling ahead! :)

Dana Schilling wrote:

Ummm, no spoilers or anything, but the current-in-US-season of a show with a protagonist who isn't always terrible nice either has him getting completely sappy about a baby.

I believe I know which show you mean, although it's not one that I've been watching. What this makes *me* think of is my current-favorite show, _Farscape_ (which I know I'm always wibbling on about, but hey). You've got D'argo, who's a huge hulking warrior guy: impatient, impulsive and much more inclined towards head-breaking than anything touchy-feely. And then we find out that he's got a kid, and (even though that particular relationship ultimately, um, doesn't turn out very well) there's an early episode where he's hallucinating that his son is there with him and is still a small child. And we suddenly see this tough, often rather immature barbarian warrior guy turning into a patient, gentle, utterly doting father. And, while it's surprising, it's totally believable. (Much credit due to Anthony Simcoe, who plays D'Argo; a *terrific* actor, and a B7 fan to boot!) Anyway, the point is, yes, people (real and fictional) *do* often act differently and sometimes surprisingly when they're dealing with babies, particularly their own babies. And it can be done believably on-screen, and, presumably, in fanfic. But I *still* simply can't pciture Avon entering into the spirit of pattycake. :)

In a different post, Helen Krummenacker wrote:

I suspect the Snarly One would be undemonstrative, but would besides protecting the child, take a great deal of interest in preparing baby for life. In fact, that would be one reason he wouldn't be very affectionate-- he sees the world as cold and wants junior to be ready for the feelings of rejection etc that come in life.

I definitely agree with this. It reminds me of my ex-boyfriend's dad (who, I ought to add, is nevertheless a considerably warmer person than Avon). He used to do things like taking the kids out into the woods and getting them to navigate the way home, because "someday your life may depend on being able to do this," and just generally attempted to turn every possible situation into a survival-skills lesson. Which is fine, until you get to the point where it becomes: "I don't care if you're frightened or you don't know what you're doing or you don't like this game. Suck it up and stop snivelling. If this was for real, you'd be dead by now." The ex occasinally used to do that sort of thing to me, and even for an adult, it's not a pleasant experience (certainly not when it's coming from someone whose respect and love you place a great emotional value on). It can definitely mess up a little kid. But it's *exactly* the sort of thing I can imagine Avon doing.

I think I've said this before at some point, and nobody seemed to agree with me, but, heck, I'll say it again, anyway. I think Avon has a definite streak of "cruel to be kind" attitude. I think we see it in "Trial," for instance. My interpretation of that episode is that Avon never seriously did consider ditching Blake for a second. Indeed, he seems to me by that point to have pretty much made and accepted a conscious choice to stay with Blake. And, while I know that not everybody agrees about this, I really *do* think that the main reason he stays is because he cares about Blake, a lot more than he would ever admit. And yet, he really is incredibly cruel to Blake in "Trial," taking all Blake's pain and guilt over Gan, sticking a barbed knife into it and twisting. Why? Because if Blake hurts enough, if the experience is painful enough, maybe it will keep him from making the same mistakes a second time, and getting himself or the rest of them killed. And for Avon, I think, that's the most important thing. He regards emotions as trivial at best and as a weakness at worst, and considers survival the highest goal. So it stands to reason that when it comes to people he loves (friend, lover, child, whatever), their survival is going to take precedence in his mind over their emotional happiness. If he has to hurt Blake emotionally to help keep him safe physically, so be it. And I think he'd likely take very much the same attitude towards a child. I can see him being very, very hard on any child of his, even taking the attitude that having them experience and survive a little emotional pain is a good thing, a step towards building the emotional toughness that he also considers to be a survival trait. Poor kid.

The good news is, if it were also Cally's child, I could easily see her as a moderating influence on Avon, and see her providing the safety net of unconditional love and acceptance that kids need and that I don't think Avon could really provide...

-- Betty Ragan ** bragan@nrao.edu ** http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~bragan Not speaking for my employers, officially or otherwise. "Seeing a rotten picture for the special effects is like eating a tough steak for the smothered onions..." -- Isaac Asimov