In a message dated 2/28/01 10:06:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, N.Faulkner@tesco.net writes:
<< I don't go along with this at all. It seems too convenient, a way of letting Avon off the hook, and more importantly a convenient way of relieving Avon groupies of the problematic reconciliation of their groupiedom with the cold, hard fact that Avon shot the shit out of Blake. It wasn't his fault, it was all Servalan's doing, Blake is dead and Avon is innocent, hurrah!
Also, I am less than impressed by the perennial fannish obsession with 'conditioning' as a cop out explanation for anything in the series that they're less than happy with. There are examples of such conditioning in the series, of course, most notably in VftP and Terminal, but they are made explicit and are plot-specific. >>
Well, I don't think I said that Avon should be "let off the hook." I'm not really a proponent overall of the "Avon is innocent" theory. In fact, Leah and I have both long pointed out that it is ridiculous to constantly blame *Blake* for what Avon did. And a lot of fan fiction does some to do that. I can't count the number of times I've read fanfic where Blake survives Gauda Prime and spends all of his time *apologizing* to Avon for *making* him shoot him. And worries about Avon. And so on. I'm probably even guilty of writing a few stories like that myself in my early days of writing way back when.
I was simply pointing out that is a completely valid possibility, especially what we SAW happening on Terminal, that Avon had been conditioned to kill Blake the moment he finally found him/saw him. And that is what happened, with apparently little rhyme or reason. Perhaps others don't agree with me that Avon seems startled when he pulls the trigger?
Annie
--- Ashton7@aol.com wrote:
I was simply pointing out that is a completely valid possibility, especially what we SAW happening on Terminal, that Avon had been conditioned to kill Blake the moment he finally found him/saw him. And that is what happened, with apparently little rhyme or reason. Perhaps others don't agree with me that Avon seems startled when he pulls the trigger?
Of course he's startled. He's just been panicked into shooting one of his best friends. But I don't see why Servalan would go to all of the trouble to condition him. After all she's just left him in a booby trapped base with a booby trapped ship on a planet that's just about to undergo serious seismic disturbances. She could hardly know that Dorian was going to convieniently show up and rescue him. Besides, Avon didn't make an appearance on ISN accusing Blake of having a God-complex and then phone him to say he knew where his Father was. :)
Stephen.
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Annie wrote:
I was simply pointing out that is a completely valid possibility, especially what we SAW happening on Terminal, that Avon had been conditioned to kill Blake the moment he finally found him/saw him. And that is what happened, with apparently little rhyme or reason. Perhaps others don't agree with me that Avon seems startled when he pulls the trigger?
I agree that he seems startled, but I always read that as more of an "Oh, my god, what am I doing, is this really happening?" kind of thing. I've read a few stories with the Terminal-conditioning setup, and I think it's an interesting idea, a perfectly reasonable premise for a fanfic, but I personally don't think that's what was actually happening. I agree with Neil, actually (again!). Conditioning is an interesting theme in B7, but it *can* be used in ways that feel like a bit of a cop-out to me.
From: Ashton7@aol.com
I was simply pointing out that is a completely valid possibility,
especially
what we SAW happening on Terminal, that Avon had been conditioned to kill Blake the moment he finally found him/saw him. And that is what happened, with apparently little rhyme or reason.
Not really, otherwise we'd have got: Tarrant: "Is it him?" Vila: "It's h-" BLAM! "Well, it *was* him."
The Blake-Avon exchange before Avon pulls the trigger doesn't suggest, at least not to me, that Avon's trying to fight a subliminal impulse he's been conditioned to feel. More like (and also more likely) he's trying to make sense of a totally unexpected situation, that Blake really has turned bounty hunter and is planning to turn them all in.
Perhaps others don't agree with me that Avon seems startled when he pulls the trigger?
I haven't seen that scene for years, but I do recall Avon's expression fairly well. He looked like he'd just swallowed a haddock, which I suppose could be considered pretty startling. But like a lot of expressions, especially from Paul Darrow, it could be read several ways. I see it as a silent scream of confusion, fury and pain, vocalised by the gun.
Neil
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