Neil:
But a minority does not become irrelevant simply for being tiny. There
are
children in fandom, and that must be taken into account. ... Since there are children in fandom, we ought to assume that some of them might well read fan fiction. If we assume that, we have to acknowledge
that
there are zines out there that maybe they shouldn't read.
I knew someone would say this. In the case of children intro'd to the show by parentfen (hard to think how else they'd come across it really these days), I assume the parentfen have enough fannish knowledge to separate their kids from material they consider unsuitable.
I suppose it might, but my (admittedly limited) experience of young
children
suggests that they're happy to lap up any amount of violence.
This might or might not be the case, and might depend on age, character, gender et al. (I recall being horrified/terrified by violence in Dr Who as a kid, and also grimly recall reading Solzhenitzyn's description of torture and interrogation in 'The Gulag Archipelago' aged about 10 -- a prime case of the 'don't censor' principle: the only reason I read it is that my parents forbade me to).
The question is, however, is it doing them any harm?
The real problem with 'gen' is that it has come to mean anything that isn't 'adult', but that leaves a lot of things that still qualify as gen but are not necessarily suitable
for
younger readers. Violence, possibly, or strong language.
I disagree. One problem with some genzines is that they often feel so sanitised (to me) that I can only read them in very small chunks. (Those produced by Neil Faulkner being honourable exceptions.)
This problem is not terribly applicable to fanfic because extreme violence and especially strong language are pretty rare. The only B7 story I know to feature the word 'cunt' is one of mine, though I
presume
there are others.
Perhaps I'm the only proponent of the 'Blake uses "fuck" every second word' school of dialogue, then. But then I can't even type the c word, so perhaps you're right.
Tavia
From: Tavia tavia@btinternet.com
I knew someone would say this. In the case of children intro'd to the show by parentfen (hard to think how else they'd come across it really these days)
Through friends with parentfen?
I assume the parentfen have enough fannish knowledge to separate their kids from material they consider unsuitable.
But what if the parent promised the kid that s/he could read the zines once parent had finished reading them, or even ordered a batch of zines specifically for the kid - only to snatch them away from eager young hands on the grounds that they were unsuitable? I don't know if this is has ever happened, and I'm not suggesting it happens all the time, but it *could* happen.
Or - parentfan orders zines, finds them a bit racey, but okays them for her kid. Kid then passes zines onto friend, whose parents are a little less liberal.
There are ways in which children could come into contact with material that their parents might not approve of, so some kind of content guidance policy is not entirely inapplicable. Splitting content into Sex and Everything Else is not a particularly good way to go about it (IMO), but that's the way it seems to have happened for better or worse.
The question is, however, is it doing them any harm?
The question is, what do their parents think? Rightly or wrongly, they are the final arbiters in deciding what their children should and should not be allowed to read.
The real problem with 'gen' is that it has come to mean anything that isn't 'adult', but that leaves
a
lot of things that still qualify as gen but are not necessarily suitable
for
younger readers. Violence, possibly, or strong language.
I disagree. One problem with some genzines is that they often feel so sanitised (to me) that I can only read them in very small chunks. (Those produced by Neil Faulkner being honourable exceptions.)
Why, thank you!:) But I would say that genzines are sanitised precisely because they are differentiated from adult zines. There is a lot of *potential content* that might find its way into 'gen' fic but doesn't, because gen has come to mean U or PG rated (Horizon accepts zine submissions on the basis of their being precisely that). The separation of sex and non-sex has effectively straitjacketed gen into this sanitised corner.
There are good reasons, I think, to keep adult and non-adult apart. Some people, though probably not many, only want to read adult. A larger number want to avoid adult. If you put the two in one zine, you are at the very least losing readers who want the non-adult but won't touch the zine because it has adult content. The publisher loses sales, while some readers lose out on stories that they might otherwise have really enjoyed.
I think it remains viable to segregate adult from non-adult fiction on the basis of sexual content, but I think there is also a case for distinguishing between non-adult suitable for young readers and non-adult slanted towards, ahem, 'mature' readers. The latter is not very common, though.
Perhaps I'm the only proponent of the 'Blake uses "fuck" every second
word'
school of dialogue, then.
Actually I see that as more Tarrant's province.
But then I can't even type the c word, so perhaps you're right.
It's a standard component of shop-floor argot, applied indiscriminately to anything and everything (or everyone), so commonplace that any kind of pejorative meaning can only be construed from context.
Neil (who's only just realised that he's assuming all Lysters are adults)
Perhaps I'm the only proponent of the 'Blake uses
"fuck" every second word' school of dialogue, then.
Actually I see that as more Tarrant's province.
I see it more as an 'Avon' word. Perhaps this is because in the episode "Killer" just after Tynus finishes explaining about the difficulty in his gaining access to the spare TP crystal, Avon, (who is still by the basin next to Vila) - looks briefly at Vila and I could swear after he bites his lip, he breathes out the word 'Fuck' but I could be wrong...anyway, I now tend to think of it more as an Avon word.
===== Cheryl. (My favourite 'Blake's 7' moment) What a fiasco! We could take over the ship you said, if I did my bit. Well, I did my bit, and what happened? Your 'troops' bumble around looking for someone to surrender to, and when they've succeeded, You, follow suit! (Avon to Blake. "Spacefall")
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Cheryl _ -
Neil Faulkner -
Tavia