--- Marian de Haan maya@multiweb.nl wrote:

Wendy wrote:

...

Anyway, even if it is hers, it obviously takes a

man to push the right buttons.<

No, it takes a *technician* to launch the rocket. With 50 % chance of the first technician to drop by being a man, I see no prejudice here.

But again, Avon's not a rocket expert. And it doesn't seem to have crossed the *author's* mind that there was a 50% chance the technician could be female: there were 2 candidates for the role, avon and Blake. In no drafts of the script does he consider, say, Jenna.

...

If we've already agreed that the rocket is a

metaphor, than the children thing can be a metaphor too, can't it?<

Sorry, but I honestly can't see any evidence that the rocket was meant as a metaphor. [To me most Freudian metaphors seem bollocks anyway. :-)]

There are certian things that Freud said which have become accepted as commmon symbols. In Austen Powers (or just about any other slapstick comedy, for that matter) there is a lot of playing about with bananas, sausages etc. with the visible intention that the audience will take it as read that these are metaphors for phalluses. The rocket is such a commonly accepted phallic symbol that Austen Powers, Monty Python, The Simpsons etc. all use it as such. Even if it wasn't intended as an out-and-out phallic symbol in Deliverance, Nation has to have been aware on some level that it could be seen as one.

...

Just as he doesn't *actually* have sex with her,

he perpetuates her race in some other way, so he doesn't have to *actually* get her pregnant for the equation of male action --> female perpetuation of species to read.<

Sorry, this goes right over my head.

This is the point of a metaphor. One argument which was raised is that "the rocket launch can't have been a sexual thing, because Avon didn't actually give *her* children (i.e. get her pregnant), he gave her race children." My counterargument is that I am not talking about her desire for children as an individual, but that something happens in which a male acts, and a woman perpetuates the species.

...

She waits, virginal, dressed in diaphanous robes,

for this bloke to come along and fulfil her. What part of this *isn't* a sexual metaphor?<

You mean a writer can't do a story about a man helping a woman in need without the risk of being accused of sexism? You scare me.

No, I DIDN'T say that! I don't object to a story about a man helping a woman in need, it's how the woman is presented.

Let's take the Jenna-being-captured bit. Here is a woman in need, and a man comes along and helps her. However, Jenna is visibly a strong person who does not limply acquiesce to being kidnapped; it's just that the situation is too much for her to handle alone. However, Meegat doesn't bother to go out and learn rocket science, or do anything else remotely proactive about her people's situation; she just waits about for a man to come and save her. If Jenna had done the same I would be disturbed.

...

why *is* it that people miss out on this subliminal

message?<

Perhaps because for some people it simply isn't there? :-)

I think you've just shown that *that's* true.

Wendy.

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"The rocket represents a phallus."

"Does not!"

"Does too!"

"Does not!"

"Does too!"

"Does not!"

"Does too!"

(yawn)

Kathryn Andersen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Avon: Are you telling me that you're in favor of this idea? Vila: No, not exactly, I just don't think it's stupid. Perhaps - maybe I'm on your side, Cally. Blake: It's not a question of sides, Vila. Avon: No, it's a question of intelligence, so your opinion has very little relevance. (Blake's 7: Weapon [B3])