Morrigan wrote:
That's a pretty convincing MS. Probably why I prefer P.D. James' Adam Dalgleish. He comes with lots of annoying and human traits and doesn't have a social life. I can identify with that.
PD James is a massively better writer, she has a great sense for place (eg The Black Tower, Devices & Desires). It's a shame she gave up writing her female detective Cordelia Gray (eg An Unsuitable Job for a Woman) as she was rather fun.
Scarpetta, well let's put it this way, I've packed up all my Scarpetta novels to go to Oxfam (in fact, ObB7, will probably give them to Richard at Redemption if anyone's intrigued to know how bad they are). I tried to do the same with my PD James and they cried at me from the box to read them...
Tavia
PS In fact, on the male--female debate, I've been surprised how many men enjoy PD James' Dalgliesh novels.
From: Tavia Chalcraft tavia@btinternet.com
PD James is a massively better writer, she has a great sense for place (eg The Black Tower, Devices & Desires). It's a shame she gave up writing her female detective Cordelia Gray (eg An Unsuitable Job for a Woman) as she was rather fun.
I've read Devices and Desires. Very well written, excellent sense of place, stunning depth of character etc, but .... I still prefer Cornwell, for all her irritations. The actual crimes and solving the crimes have a higher profile in the Scarpetta books, there is more emphasis on professional practice and procedural stuff (all the autopsy bits in the lab are great), and more focus on hard evidence. Also, Scarpetta evokes far better than James the sense of crime being almost random in who it affects.
Kay Scarpetta might be a MS, but in the earlier books there was a counterbalancing trend. Supremely competent career woman, excellent cook and homemaker, stand-in mother - and a chain-smoking neurotic who couldn't keep a man if she nailed his feet to the floor.
I discovered Cornwell through my mum, who seems to subsist almost entirely on crime fiction. Last time I went down to see her she put me on to Sue Grafton, amongst others. But strangely, she doesn't care much for my own all-time favourite, Raymond Chandler.
ObB7? Er, Mission to Destiny owes too much to Agatha Christie, who was crap. Well, crappish.
Neil
Neil said:
ObB7? Er, Mission to Destiny owes too much to Agatha Christie, who was
crap.
Well, crappish.
But Agatha Christie (although she couldn't write a character if you nailed HER feet to the floor) was one of the most brilliant technicians of pure plot in all genre fiction. ObB7: it's beginning to look like there are at least as many fen who like detective stories as who like science fiction--I've often wondered why there are so few B7 detective story fanfics.
-(Y)
Dana Shilling wrote:
Neil said:
ObB7? Er, Mission to Destiny owes too much to Agatha Christie, who was
crap.
Well, crappish.
But Agatha Christie (although she couldn't write a character if you nailed HER feet to the floor) was one of the most brilliant technicians of pure plot in all genre fiction. ObB7: it's beginning to look like there are at least as many fen who like detective stories as who like science fiction--I've often wondered why there are so few B7 detective story fanfics.
Hm. Well I actually like Poirot; he's quirky, if not entirely round. I've been toying with the idea of putting him on the Liberator to show Avon how it's done.
Mistral
Mistral mistral@centurytel.net wrote:
Dana Shilling wrote:
Neil said:
ObB7? Er, Mission to Destiny owes too much to Agatha Christie, who was
crap.
Well, crappish.
But Agatha Christie (although she couldn't write a character if you nailed HER feet to the floor) was one of the most brilliant technicians of pure plot in all genre fiction. ObB7: it's beginning to look like there are at least as many fen who like detective stories as who like science fiction--I've often wondered why there are so few B7 detective story fanfics.
Hm. Well I actually like Poirot; he's quirky, if not entirely round. I've been toying with the idea of putting him on the Liberator to show Avon how it's done.
Mistral
Father Knox wrote ten rules of detective fiction (ie overused topics - no more than one secret passage, no acts of God etc) and Agatha Christie breaks several of them.
Both of the B7 detective episodes - this and the one in which Tarrant eliminates the death squad follow the rules more. __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
--- Dana Shilling dshilling@worldnet.att.net wrote:
Neil said:
ObB7? Er, Mission to Destiny owes too much to
Agatha Christie, who was crap.
Well, crappish.
But Agatha Christie (although she couldn't write a character if you nailed HER feet to the floor) was one of the most brilliant technicians of pure plot in all genre fiction. ObB7: it's beginning to look like there are at least as many fen who like detective stories as who like science fiction--I've often wondered why there are so few B7 detective story fanfics.
Having tried and failed myself I suggest that one reason may be because writing a good Detective story is damned difficult !
A more fundamental reason may be that Detective stories tend to take place in a society where murder is a crime and not a tool of statecraft. (It is not a coincidence that MtD takes place on a neutral spacecraft belonging to a society where the rule of law still holds). Most murders in B7 take place in the open.
I suppose it might be possible - if you enjoy rather bleak irony - to write a story where a murder was being investigated against a back drop of, say, the purges on Saurian Major with a very pedantic police official attempting to solve a crime oblivious of the far greater crime being committed by the authorities. I'm not sure if that would work though.
Stephen.
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Stephen said:
Having tried and failed myself I suggest that one reason may be because writing a good Detective story is damned difficult !
Writing a good ANYTHING is damned difficult.
A more fundamental reason may be that Detective stories tend to take place in a society where murder is a crime and not a tool of statecraft.
But even offhand I can think of at least a dozen detective stories exploring this very point--e.g., Gorky Park and SS/GB. (It is not a
coincidence that MtD takes place on a neutral spacecraft belonging to a society where the rule of law still holds). Most murders in B7 take place in the open.
And, of course, murder is not the only possible crime-- I'm sure everyone would take an interest if the contents of the Treasure Room disappeared, for instance (sort of like And Then THere Were None, with money instead of bodies?)
-(Y)
From: Stephen Date stephend999@yahoo.co.uk
--- Dana Shilling dshilling@worldnet.att.net wrote:
ObB7: it's beginning to look like there are at least as many fen who like detective stories as who like science fiction--I've often wondered why there are so few B7 detective story fanfics.
Having tried and failed myself I suggest that one reason may be because writing a good Detective story is damned difficult !
Having also tried and failed myself, I can only agree.
A more fundamental reason may be that Detective stories tend to take place in a society where murder is a crime and not a tool of statecraft.
What might be even more fundamental is that the detective genre is about the establishment (the detective, professional or freelance) taking on the forces of chaos and disorder (crime, social disruption), whereas in fanfic the focus is normally on those forces of chaos, ie; outside the establishment. So a B7 detective story would probably have to be told from the Federation's POV, and hence rule out the regular characters. And as has been made fairly clear over the past few days, fanfic for most readers is about those regular characters.
Yes, you could contrive a situation where Blake or Avon or whoever have to play detective (as was done in Mission to Destiny), but it would need a special set of circumstances in order to work. (Susan Cutter contrived a good one for 'Traitor to the Cause' in Pressure Point.)
But the premises of B7 don't really make it natural detective fiction material for mainstream fanfic.
Neil
On Thu, Feb 15, 2001 at 04:38:27PM -0500, Dana Shilling wrote:
ObB7: it's beginning to look like there are at least as many fen who like detective stories as who like science fiction--I've often wondered why there are so few B7 detective story fanfics.
Because it's much easier read detective stories than to write them.
Kathryn answered my question:
I've often wondered why
there are so few B7 detective story fanfics.
with
Because it's much easier read detective stories than to write them.
I'm beginning to suspect that it's easier to write "normal" B7 fanfics than detective stories, but it's not as easy as all that--and definitely harder than reading them.
-(Y)
-
Dana Shilling -
jacquispeel＠netscape.net -
Kathryn Andersen -
Mistral -
Neil Faulkner -
Stephen Date -
Tavia Chalcraft