From: Tavia tavia@btinternet.com

Based on personal observations only, the demographics of the B7 fan population appear to be heavily skewed towards people who saw the show

when

it was first aired in their country of residence, ie mostly 30s--40s. I know that there are a few children who have been introduced to B7 by fannish parents, but they'd form a tiny minority.

But a minority does not become irrelevant simply for being tiny. There are children in fandom, and that must be taken into account. The Horizon Newsletter (for those old enough to remember what they used to be) started to feature a 'Children of Auron' page for younger members, where for no additional fee whatsoever you could have your kids patronised by Diane Gies. Since there are children in fandom, we ought to assume that some of them might well read fan fiction. If we assume that, we have to acknowledge that there are zines out there that maybe they shouldn't read. Which is why adult zines require an age statement (very sensibly).

So-called 'gen' material in 100% genzines commonly includes a degree of violence that (whilst in keeping with the show) might shock young

children.

I suppose it might, but my (admittedly limited) experience of young children suggests that they're happy to lap up any amount of violence. 2000AD, though aimed at an older teen/twenties audience, has many young readers, and the blood almost oozes off the pages at times. An earlier comic, Action!, expressly aimed at young teen or pre-teen readers, was ultimately banned because of its violent content. But I don't somehow think it was the readers who were complaining.

It seems to me that the depiction of sexual relationships of whatever nature is hardly any *less* suitable for children than the depiction of, say, torture.

A very fine sentiment in theory, but with society the way it is a parent would have to think very carefully before exposing children to sexual theory, if only to avoid censure (or having the kids taken into care).

A blanket ban on mixing any adult material with gen material tends to result in fanzines that are (to my mind) rather dull -- either masses and masses of Our Heroes running round in corridors blowing things up, or masses and masses of erotica in the style insert tab X into slot Y.

I have to disagree. Adult material polarises fans too much (as recent discussion on this list clearly illustrates). The real problem with 'gen' is that it has come to mean anything that isn't 'adult', but that leaves a lot of things that still qualify as gen but are not necessarily suitable for younger readers. Violence, possibly, or strong language.

Conventionally, only explicit sexual material gets an age categorisation (in Britain anyway, AFAIK). And even then that doesn't apply to graphic sex scenes in a mainstream novel. Violence and language seems to be unrestricted. This problem is not terribly applicable to fanfic because extreme violence and especially strong language are pretty rare. The only B7 story I know to feature the word 'cunt' is one of mine, though I presume there are others.

Neil

--- Tavia tavia@btinternet.com wrote:

Cheryl, I fear you've probably inadvertently tripped a Tavian rant wire here.

That's okay, feel free to disagree, after all I am only arguing one side of a debate and in that, it is POV only and I have been known to be wrong - I think it was back in 1975... :-) I am also aware that it doesn't speak for all.

Tavia wrote:

Based on personal observations only, the demographics of the B7 fan population appear to be heavily skewed towards people who saw the show when it was first aired in their country of residence, ie mostly 30s--40s. I know that there are a few children who have been introduced to B7 by fannish parents, but they'd form a tiny minority.

It would be so easy for me at this stage to simply say 'good point' and let my objections slip into the backwaters - but the thing is Tavia, I can't let go of the tiny minority - if even one child, gains an incorrect impression of human behaviour through this sort of material, then the repercussions can often get felt beyond that one tiny individual as time goes by. As for the only children watching being those of fannish parents - I would say that whilst repeats are being shown on T.V. the show is always open to a new generation of fans.

I wrote:

and if this genre is introduced via fan fiction etc, to a show which has no previous mention or implications in this area, then the stories (IMO)should not be interspersed with general B7 material and any illustrations of the characters should not show any realistic reproductions of the faces of the actors involved.

Tavia wrote:

The show itself is violent, in virtually every episode we see death, torture, massacre &c. I'd say that once or twice there's a strong implication of behind-the-scenes rape.

This wasn't actually my point - I'm not arguing the rights or wrongs of porn - I don't like it - but that's not the issue, the issue is introducing it in a market that is not conditioned for it and displaying the likeness of *non porn* actors on pornographic illustrations. However; to answer your point. I would agree that there is death in every episode. Torture, massacre etc was much less so - but still sufficient enough to mark the violence of the show also the idea of giving Poola over to the men in 'Moloch' bothered the hell out of me - I think they were highlighting another aspect of the cruel and merciless side of the federation, and at least it showed the horror of such an action - it was not shown in an acceptable light - Poola was clearly horrified and terrified. I agree that it was a violent show and even some aspects of this was more than was neccessary, however; this is common knowledge to a B7 fan, but to my knowledge none of this type of action was ever glorified - Avon was constantly arguing with Blake even the rest of Blake's crew had questioned him re: his motives at least once, and ultimately Gan died in one of Blakes raids - showing the fallibility of our 'heroes' - regardless, this is the style of the show and when people tune in - they know what they're getting.

The 'heroes'themselves include murderers, thieves &c. and Blake is accused of paedophilia.

Blake is accused only(as you rightly pointed out) and we know that it is not so - name officially cleared in "Voice from the Past" - another case against the vile federation, they are the ones who planted the 'memory' of the supposed events in the minds of the children - it is the federation who commited the heinous crime of paedophilia, not Blake.

Only one thief and one attempt at embezzlement no murderers - Gan was fitted with a limiter, so that he couldn't kill, considering his crime was that of killing the man who killed his girlfriend/wife - I don't see that as murder. still this is my POV and does not speak for others.

Tavia wrote:

So-called 'gen' material in 100% genzines commonly includes a degree of violence that (whilst in keeping with the show) might shock young children. It seems to me that the depiction of sexual relationships of whatever nature is hardly any *less* suitable for children than the depiction of, say, torture. (In either case, one might like to consult the sensibilities of the individual child and his/her parents, the age in question, the degree of explicitness of the material &c&c.)

In the case of violence Vs sex in relation to a child - I think a B7 type story with blown up installations, Servalan up to her usual machinations, etc, actually has less of a possible harmful effect in the written form and even the show itself as opposed to explicit sex, especially if the cover illustrates the 'heroes' in a suggestive pose and even more so should they be of the same sex. I guess I'd better qualify that statement - Children understand the difference between good and bad only too well, however; if you start introducing them to complex human relationships then you could end up with one very confused child.

Tavia wrote:

A blanket ban on mixing any adult material with gen material tends to result in fanzines that are (to my mind) rather dull -- either masses and masses of Our Heroes running round in corridors blowing things up, or masses and masses of erotica in the style insert tab X into slot Y.

If I've read this right, then you are saying that erotica only is dull - B7 type stories only is dull, therefore a mix of the two allows for a diversity in style to satisfy a range of moods. Assuming that there was to be a one only massive edition of B7 stories - I would agree with this statement 100% However; there are zines available covering both genres and if a mix was required then it simply means buying one of each type and reading whatever suited your current mood. Many people love a good traditional B7 story and the delving into this area does not have to mean Blake and crew running around blowing up things all the time - it is only one aspect of the show, usually fan fiction can often delve into the subareas of canon that the show did not venture, characters are 'fleshed' out a bit more but still within the boundaries of canon. Then there are the areas that leave the boundaries of canon but still keep the characters recognisable, it can be very interesting reading. As for 'tab X into slot Y' I have read some defences of porn/slash stating that this genre can be used to delve into characters and show interesting aspects to them, that otherwise is not touched upon in standard B7 fiction - so I am assuming that for those that enjoy porn/slash - a magazine devoted to it should be acceptable. Either way, there is choice and those that do not wish porn/slash are not subjected to it in their chosen magazine.

Maybe I should point out at this stage as I'm beginning to feel a shade 'Mary Whitehouse' That I personally would thoroughly enjoy an (for e.g.)Avon and Jenna pairing story, I would prefer they acknowledge genuine feelings for each other in said story but a love making scene would be very acceptable to me - (IMO)this is not porn, however; I would still say that it should be in an adults only zine - some things should remain the province of adults. The children will mature eventually, then the choice is theirs.

===== Cheryl. (My favourite 'Blake's 7' moment) What a fiasco! We could take over the ship you said, if I did my bit. Well, I did my bit, and what happened? Your 'troops' bumble around looking for someone to surrender to, and when they've succeeded, You, follow suit! (Avon to Blake. "Spacefall")

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