On Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:42:35 -0800 (PST) M nova_m1@excite.co.uk writes: Do we
need Avon to not have committed this crime so much, we try to absolve him?
For me, killing Blake is one step too far (the same if Avon had killed Vila). Without extenuating circumstances, this is just more than I can take from him. But, I think it's also more than he can take as a character. An Avon who has knowingly killed Blake has destroyed something essential about himself. Whatever Blake symbolized to him - hope, idealism, selflessness - and whatever part of him (however grudgingly) connected to that is dead.
Maybe the right term isn't absolve so much as absolution, the idea that forgiveness and redemption are miracles that occur outside the individual. For the story to go on, that's what's needed. Either Avon needs to be credibly separated from full guilt or an equally credible party needs to forgive him (probably Blake, unless a very good argument can be made for someone else).
Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
From: Ellynne G. rilliara@juno.com
For me, killing Blake is one step too far (the same if Avon had killed Vila). Without extenuating circumstances, this is just more than I can take from him.
A death is a death is a death. Who killed whom is immaterial. What makes Avon so special? What makes Blake so special? Avon killed plenty of other people through the course of the series. Come to think of it, so did Blake.
But, I think it's also more than he can take as a character.
I have always seen that as a case of fannish wishful thinking.
An Avon who has knowingly killed Blake has destroyed something essential about himself. Whatever Blake symbolized to him - hope, idealism, selflessness - and whatever part of him (however grudgingly) connected to that is dead.
No matter what happens to him, Avon carries on. Though there is much to be said for a PGP scenario in which Blake survives and the two can be reconciled in some way.
Maybe the right term isn't absolve so much as absolution, the idea that forgiveness and redemption are miracles that occur outside the individual. For the story to go on, that's what's needed. Either Avon needs to be credibly separated from full guilt or an equally credible party needs to forgive him (probably Blake, unless a very good argument can be made for someone else).
I don't think it can be disputed that Avon shot Blake. It was his finger on the trigger. Nor can it be denied that Blake was unarmed, though we might question how aware of this Avon might have been, with so much happening so fast at what was clearly a moment of crisis. We should also consider that Blake was accompanied by at least one other person who was armed, and that Avon was in territory that he had grounds to consider as hostile. Avon was also accompanied by others who were likewise armed (though one had been somewhat severely battered by recent events), and who is to say that they might not have started shooting even if Avon had held back. Probably not, though, since he would seem to have become the de facto leader of his party, a position for which he was not entirely qualified and did not particularly want.
No doubt there are some who believe that Avon went to Gauda Prime with the express intention of killing Blake, but I have never interpreted the episode in this way. Things fell apart in catastrophically short order, and someone previously assumed to be a friend or at least ally (for all the sardonic gibes previously aimed at him) suddenly appeared in the guise of an enemy who seemed incapable of offering a coherent explanation for himself. Avon was thrown onto the defensive, and with a gun forced into his hands by immediately preceding events it should come as no great surprise that he defended himself the way he did. It was a gut reaction permitted by circumstance and opportunity. Not, by any means, the only action he could have made, nor necessarily the best, but the imperative to act overrode consideration of other possibilities. The decision to shoot was, I think, both conscious and deliberate, but in his mind he was not shooting the Blake he had known in the past and had hoped to find again, but a stranger who had, albeit unwittingly, turned everything upside down amid chaotic and stressful circumstances. Tragic, but tragedy is part of life and cannot be denied.
There is, of course, the possibility that he shot the clone, and that the real Blake is still out there.
Neil
--- Neil Faulkner N.Faulkner@tesco.net wrote: >
might not have started shooting even if Avon had held back. Probably not, though, since he would seem to have become the de facto leader of his party, a position for which he was not entirely qualified and did not particularly want.
Agreed on point one (that he wasn't entirely qualified). As to point two, though... I forget who it was, but someone pointed out a while back that Avon was actually very keen on taking over the Liberator, and stated his intention of doing so on several occasions (e.g. Pressure Point, Killer, Star One etc), not to mention on hanging onto his leadership position once he had gotten it (Season 3).
Avon's style of leadership would seem to be fairly dictatorial and he'd picked up a few of Blake's less pleasant traits (e.g. not telling his crew what's going on but presenting the scenario as a fait accompli). Where the two leadership styles differed was in that where Blake's crew worked as a team, Avon's crew did so less and less, winding up with a situation with Avon giving the orders and the rest acting upon them. This is seen most clearly in the last episode, where after Avon kills Blake, he appears to resign leadership and the crew become reactive rather than proactive; Tarrant, who could possibly have taken over the leadership role, calls passively to Avon for help before being shot down.
There is, of course, the possibility that he shot the clone, and that the real Blake is still out there.
This explanation has always sat ill with me, firstly because Orac's seldom wrong, and secondly because the clone, while a physical copy, did not contain Blake's life experiences, and so (leaving aside the fact that this would make nonsense of the final scene; how could a man who'd never known Avon react as Blake did to seeing/being shot by him? Recall that in an earlier version of the script Blake's last line to Avon was "You were my only friend..."), the idea that it would wind up on Gauda Prime trying to start a revolution doesn't necessarily read. Also, Blake's behaviour in "Blake" doesn't really fit too well with the Clonemasters' reverence for life, which they apparently instilled in the clone.
The possibility of the clone meeting Avon PGP could be interesting though, given that the clone would not know him (there's a James Schmitz story from the fifties which briefly goes into the situation of a clone created to be the exact duplicate of someone... but who, once she is no longer needed in this way, goes off and has a life of her own which is quite different from her original's).
Fiona
The Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane Available for public perusal at http://nyder.r67.net
____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
--- Fiona Moore nydersdyner@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > ---
There is, of course, the possibility that he shot the clone, and that the real Blake is still out there.
This explanation has always sat ill with me, firstly because Orac's seldom wrong, and secondly because the clone, while a physical copy, did not contain Blake's life experiences, and so (leaving aside the fact that this would make nonsense of the final scene; how could a man who'd never known Avon react as Blake did to seeing/being shot by him? Recall that in an earlier version of the script Blake's last line to Avon was "You were my only friend..."), the idea that it would wind up on Gauda Prime trying to start a revolution doesn't necessarily read. Also, Blake's behaviour in "Blake" doesn't really fit too well with the Clonemasters' reverence for life, which they apparently instilled in the clone.
I think, for the reasons Fiona has cited it was not The Clone on GP. If you want the whole thing to have been set up by Servalan a clone, or somebody surgically altered, and programmed to think they were Blake, would not be beyond the bounds of possibility. Orac would have gotten his information from Federation computers so all you have do do is place information on Federation computers leading Avon to GP. Servalan does something similar, though less elaborate to lure Blake to the planet in Weapon. All you do then is put a blockade round the planet and the 5th Federation infantry division into position and wait to spring your trap giving you Orac, what's left of Scorpio for study (the Stardrive and the Teleport) and capture or kill the crew. From Servalan's point of view, Avon killing Blake would either have been a complication, a bonus or an irrelevance depending on what she had planned for him.
(Oh - and character junkies can have all the fun of Avon angst over his shooting Blake followed by Avon's angst when he finds out that he shot someone else.)
Stephen.
____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
--- Neil Faulkner N.Faulkner@tesco.net wrote: >
might not have started shooting even if Avon had held back. Probably not, though, since he would seem to have become the de facto leader of his party, a position for which he was not entirely qualified and did not particularly want.
Agreed on point one (that he wasn't entirely qualified). As to point two, though... I forget who it was, but someone pointed out a while back that Avon was actually very keen on taking over the Liberator, and stated his intention of doing so on several occasions (e.g. Pressure Point, Killer, Star One etc), not to mention on hanging onto his leadership position once he had gotten it (Season 3).
Avon's style of leadership would seem to be fairly dictatorial and he'd picked up a few of Blake's less pleasant traits (e.g. not telling his crew what's going on but presenting the scenario as a fait accompli). Where the two leadership styles differed was in that where Blake's crew worked as a team, Avon's crew did so less and less, winding up with a situation with Avon giving the orders and the rest acting upon them. This is seen most clearly in the last episode, where after Avon kills Blake, he appears to resign leadership and the crew become reactive rather than proactive; Tarrant, who could possibly have taken over the leadership role, calls passively to Avon for help before being shot down.
There is, of course, the possibility that he shot the clone, and that the real Blake is still out there.
This explanation has always sat ill with me, firstly because Orac's seldom wrong, and secondly because the clone, while a physical copy, did not contain Blake's life experiences, and so (leaving aside the fact that this would make nonsense of the final scene; how could a man who'd never known Avon react as Blake did to seeing/being shot by him? Recall that in an earlier version of the script Blake's last line to Avon was "You were my only friend..."), the idea that it would wind up on Gauda Prime trying to start a revolution doesn't necessarily read. Also, Blake's behaviour in "Blake" doesn't really fit too well with the Clonemasters' reverence for life, which they apparently instilled in the clone.
The possibility of the clone meeting Avon PGP could be interesting though, given that the clone would not know him (there's a James Schmitz story from the fifties which briefly goes into the situation of a clone created to be the exact duplicate of someone... but who, once she is no longer needed in this way, goes off and has a life of her own which is quite different from her original's).
Fiona
The Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane Available for public perusal at http://nyder.r67.net
____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
In message 20010228231918.36062.qmail@web12408.mail.yahoo.com, Fiona Moore nydersdyner@yahoo.co.uk writes
Agreed on point one (that he wasn't entirely qualified). As to point two, though... I forget who it was, but someone pointed out a while back that Avon was actually very keen on taking over the Liberator, and stated his intention of doing so on several occasions (e.g. Pressure Point, Killer, Star One etc), not to mention on hanging onto his leadership position once he had gotten it (Season 3).
Keen on taking over the ship. Not quite so keen on taking over the crew:-)
-
Ellynne G. -
Fiona Moore -
Julia Jones -
Neil Faulkner -
Stephen Date