As a newbie to the list I can see why other newbie's think it's not fair that all fan fiction is not available on line there seems to be so much I have missed. However as a librarian I also see the point made by Kathryn Andersen and fully support her, you don't see many"professional" writers giving away their royalties by publishing online (and by professional I mean they make their living by it, many fan fic writers are more professional than some best selling authors).
So Kathryn I am asking nicely when you have time will you please put your out of print stories on Katspace I would love to read them and like the others I am geographically isolated in the valleys of South Wales. If anyone out there knows of secondhand book shops in Newport Cardiff or bristol and at a pinch Swansea that sell Blake's 7 fanzines please let me know. Linda
______________________________________________________________________________ Send a friend your Buddy Card and stay in contact always with Excite Messenger http://messenger.excite.com
Linda wrote...
So Kathryn I am asking nicely when you have time will you please put your out of print stories on Katspace I would love to read them and like the others I am geographically isolated in the valleys of South Wales.
Ack poor thing. I'm down in Swansea myself. Well usually I am - at the moment I'm with my family in Pembrokshire.
If anyone out there knows of secondhand book shops in Newport Cardiff or bristol and at a pinch Swansea that sell Blake's 7 fanzines please let me know.
I managed to find 1 B7 video and 1 B7 book in Swansea in all the time I've been looking<sigh>
Leia
In message 20495508.1009196864399.JavaMail.imail@doodle.excite.com, linda joyce lindajane3@excite.com writes
As a newbie to the list I can see why other newbie's think it's not fair that all fan fiction is not available on line there seems to be so much I have missed. However as a librarian I also see the point made by Kathryn Andersen and fully support her, you don't see many"professional" writers giving away their royalties by publishing online (and by professional I mean they make their living by it, many fan fic writers are more professional than some best selling authors).
This isn't the only reason for authors to not put their stories up on the web. Kathryn and I do agree about *some* things - and one of them is being disturbed by the tendency of those with net access to consider those without as third-class citizens who need not be catered for - if they consider them at all.
Believe it or not, there *are* people out there for whom it is significantly cheaper to buy zines than to buy Internet access. I know - I was one of them when I first started reading fanfic five or six years ago.
Internet access at home requires a computer, and for many that's a purchase that just doesn't figure on their personal finance horizon. Twenty quid a month on zines that can be skipped in favour of more urgent purchases seems a lot more affordable than five hundred either in one lump sum or in monthly payments that can't be skipped. Phone bills can run pretty high as well - my first three years on the net were with a 28.8 modem on a standard BT or ntl line, at minimum 1p/minute even during off-peak. On a 386 to begin with. This governs my net habits even now that I have a Pentium III on an adsl connection.
Internet access at work? Non-business use of the net access where I worked was a potential dismissal offence. And it didn't arrive until after I had it at home - the snooper software recorded rather a lot of access to B7 sites for the first six months, because as one of about three people on site who knew how to use one, I kept being dragged off by the librarians to give demonstrations of how to use a web browser.
Internet cafe? Forget that, the ones I've used in an emergency (net junkie? Me?) cost five quid an hour, and were on incredibly slow connections. The speed might possibly have not been unconnected with the fact that I was paying by the ten minute block...
All of which is one of the reasons why only one of my stories is available in an online archive (although I do post some to the non-archived Freedom City list). I want print zines to remain available, and one of the ways I can do that is by giving the editors something that the punters can't get online. That way, I do my bit to ensure that enough copies are sold to cover the editors' costs, and the editors will do another issue, thus keeping fiction available to those who can't afford or can't get Internet access.
Julia Jones wrote:
Believe it or not, there *are* people out there for whom it is significantly cheaper to buy zines than to buy Internet access. I know - I was one of them when I first started reading fanfic five or six years ago.
I can see that, but for those of us on the other side of the world (well, here in NZ anyway), it's impossible to find zines which aren't sold on the net, and very expensive to buy them too, as P&P is usually as much as if not more than the price of the zine. In fact, until I went looking on-line after I started writing B7 fiction for my own pleasure this year, I had no idea there was such a thing available! I had never even heard of, let alone seen a zine before, and since then I've bought several on-line, and would love to buy more, (I prefer to read from paper) but just can't justify the expense unless I'm really sure I'll love the zine. Cruising the second-hand book shops isn't even an option, as they just don't have them.
I anvy you your access to zines! But I suppose we all have to accept there are a lot of stories we'll never read and enjoy, :-(
Anyway, happy holidays, everyone!
Nico
On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 03:20:11PM +0000, Julia Jones wrote:
In message 20495508.1009196864399.JavaMail.imail@doodle.excite.com, linda joyce lindajane3@excite.com writes
As a newbie to the list I can see why other newbie's think it's not fair that all fan fiction is not available on line there seems to be so much I have missed. However as a librarian I also see the point made by Kathryn Andersen and fully support her, you don't see many"professional" writers giving away their royalties by publishing online (and by professional I mean they make their living by it, many fan fic writers are more professional than some best selling authors).
This isn't the only reason for authors to not put their stories up on the web. Kathryn and I do agree about *some* things - and one of them is being disturbed by the tendency of those with net access to consider those without as third-class citizens who need not be catered for - if they consider them at all.
Thanks Julia, for expressing it so eloquently. Yes, I totally agree with this. It isn't a matter of "royalties" -- zine publishing is often done at a loss. I publish zines because I *like* zines, not because I'm making money, God forbid! "Staked Blake" was an experiment; I am getting zero money from that zine at all, though all the contributors got their 'tribbers copies (as is the inviolate custom); the only hardcopies I printed of that zine were the tribbers copies, which I snail-mailed to the contributors, international postage, at entirely my own expense. I'm in Australia -- each zine would have taken about $5.00 to print, and about the same amount to post... Normally those costs are covered by the selling of the rest of the print run at slightly more than cost, but I got so sick of worrying about trying to sell the stack of zines in my cupboard (not to mention the irritation of currency conversion) that for Staked Blake I simply declared the zine to be an expensive hobby, like skiing... I'm very glad that Judith then offered to produce a printed version, so that people without net access could get a copy.
Has the experiment worked? I don't know. Haven't a clue.
Kathryn Andersen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- "I was just explaining to my class how powerful a home computer can be when in the proper hands. Would you care to...umm... comment, Miss Bloom?" -- Dr. Frank Morgan (VR.5: Love and Death)
"Kathryn" == Kathryn Andersen kat_lists@katspace.com writes:
I'm very glad that Judith then offered to produce a printed version, so that people without net access could get a copy.
How do people without net access find and use Judith's zine-selling services? AFAIK her store is entirely web-based.
In message 86d712l2gm.fsf@tezcatlipoca.algonet.se, Calle Dybedahl calle@lysator.liu.se writes
"Kathryn" == Kathryn Andersen kat_lists@katspace.com writes:
I'm very glad that Judith then offered to produce a printed version, so that people without net access could get a copy.
How do people without net access find and use Judith's zine-selling services? AFAIK her store is entirely web-based.
The same way I found it - which was *before* I got online. Or by a variety of other non-net means.
Judith operates a postal service, which is still not that uncommon amongst zine publishers. Send the old SAE/IRCs, and get a price list in return. She also goes to cons, which is where *I* found zines. And many people advertise new or second-hand zines in fan club zines, and pro sf and cult tv magazines, and other people's ficzines, and other paper-based means for fannish contact. It doesn't cover everyone, of course, but then neither does the net.
People, absorb this - not everyone in the western world has easy net access, even if it seems to you like everyone you know is online. This is called a self-selected sample... I made contact with fandom by the simple expedient of strolling down to my local newsagent and picking up a copy of Starburst to look at the con listings. I met Judith at either the second or third con I went to. (I met Gareth at the first, so I've actually known him longer than I have Judith:-) I found Horizon's address on the back of the videos. Other people have found Horizon in Ceefax's (BBC teletext) listing of fan clubs. Or written to the BBC. Or their local BBC-purchasing tv station. Once you've made that initial connection, you can make contact with other people.
And there are even people who don't have net access, but manage that magic half hour on a connection that lets them at least get a snailmail address to write to. There's at least one purchaser of Tales who found Judith that way, and then proceeded to write me a LOC using the postal address I gave in the zine.
This isn't the only reason for authors to not put their stories up on the web. Kathryn and I do agree about *some* things - and one of them is being disturbed by the tendency of those with net access to consider those without as third-class citizens who need not be catered for - if they consider them at all.
How about this if you write a story and don't find a zine right away post it to the net til you find a zine willing to publish it then ask the site owner to remove it and store it (or you store it for them on floppy.) (or if it's your site remove it yourself place the title in with a list of your stories in zines along with the titles of the zines. Then when the zine goes out of print repost it. But only publishing it in zines while fair to those who can't get access to the net it causes the net to become bare in that fandom. It was the net that introduced me to fanfic I had never heard or thought of it before then. All because I had never meet a fellow fan or had any friends who were into any shows that I was or for that matter any shows that have spawned fanfic that I have heard of. I'm not going to say it's unfair to fans online I realise now that it is fair but it's boring when those of us on with net access and no zine access (for whatever reason) it causes shows to loose in the net race. Look at Buffy or x-files in any search engine on the net they have a huge presence online while some shows that are older and very good have a very low number of sites like Blake's 7. My idea above would give everyone a chance to read your stories. More people reading your fic the better right? Would everyone agree this is feasible idea?
CJSGalen aka Tereth Dragonstar
New email addy TDragonstar@prodigy.net
captjohns wrote:
How about this if you write a story and don't find a zine right away post it to the net til you find a zine willing to publish it then ask the site owner to remove it and store it
Many -- probably most -- zine publishers won't take stories which have already been available online, since that means a fair portion of the audience will already have read the stories and aren't likely to buy a zine with "recycled" material. It's quite common for stories to appear online *after* they've been published in a zine and enough time has elapsed for the publisher's print run to sell (the time is arranged between the publisher and authors, usually a year or so), but a story which has already appeared online has a poor prospect of finding a zine publisher.
- Lisa
-- Lisa Williams: lisa@eroicafans.org or lcw@dallas.net Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://framecaplib.com/ From Eroica With Love: http://eroicafans.org/
In message 007e01c18e1c$6031f600$44ae5bd8@default, captjohns captjohns@iw.edwpub.com writes
This isn't the only reason for authors to not put their stories up on the web. Kathryn and I do agree about *some* things - and one of them is being disturbed by the tendency of those with net access to consider those without as third-class citizens who need not be catered for - if they consider them at all.
How about this if you write a story and don't find a zine right away post it to the net til you find a zine willing to publish it then ask the site owner to remove it and store it (or you store it for them on floppy.) (or if it's your site remove it yourself place the title in with a list of your stories in zines along with the titles of the zines. Then when the zine goes out of print repost it.
As already noted by others, zine publishing doesn't work this way. If you've put it on the web, most zine publishers won't touch it, for good reason. If you submit it and then put it up on the web shortly afterwards, you may well find that the editor will not take anything else from you - and may tell all her editing friends that you are not to be trusted.
But only publishing it in zines while fair to those who can't get access to the net it causes the net to become bare in that fandom.
No it doesn't. Many writers prefer to publish on the Net. I think I'm in a fairly small minority - and even those writers who do prefer to paper-publish will often put the story up on the net once the zine has gone out of print, or after enough copies have been sold for the publisher to cover her costs.
And even if it did - so what? Why is this bad, while leaving the non-netted without fiction is ok?
It was the net that introduced me to fanfic I had never heard or thought of it before then. All because I had never meet a fellow fan or had any friends who were into any shows that I was or for that matter any shows that have spawned fanfic that I have heard of. I'm not going to say it's unfair to fans online I realise now that it is fair but it's boring when those of us on with net access and no zine access (for whatever reason) it causes shows to loose in the net race.
Um - why should I care about "losing the net race"? Saying that we're in some sort of competition with other fandoms doesn't make sense to me. I want the fandom to stay alive, yes, but not as part of some points competition with other fandoms. I want something that gives me thought-provoking discussions, laughs, and yes, the odd bit of drooling over spray-on red leather. *Not* some sort of "my fandom's more popular than your fandom" dick-size war.
Look at Buffy or x-files in any search engine on the net they have a huge presence online while some shows that are older and very good have a very low number of sites like Blake's 7.
And this matters because?
If it's a question of attracting more writers - I don't particularly want to attract the writers whose most important consideration on which fandom they write in is how many sites they'll be featured on. I want to attract the writers who actually know and care about B7.
My idea above would give everyone a chance to read your stories.
Except that as soon as I put my stories on the Web before sending them to a zine, there will be no point in sending them to a zine as they will be rejected if I have the decency to tell the publisher that they've been on a website, and then only those with affordable Web access can read my stories. (Note that affordable net access is not the same as affordable Web access).
More people reading your fic the better right?
Speaking from purely selfish reasons - no. I've actually had more feedback from zine publishing (very little) than from Web publishing (none whatsoever). And with zine publishing I get a trib copy, which means lots of lovely fic that some kind soul has already selected for quality, proof-read and laid out, without me even having to pay the expense of printing it out.
Would everyone agree this is feasible idea?
Speaking as someone who has tried my hand at publishing zines, no I wouldn't...
-
Calle Dybedahl -
captjohns -
Julia Jones -
Kathryn Andersen -
Leia Fee -
linda joyce -
Lisa Williams -
Nico Mody-Nikoloff