From: "Sally Manton" smanton@hotmail.com
Canon - no. There _really_ isnt such a thing, its a figment on each person's imagination. We all do genuinely _see_ different things on the screen, I'm convinced of it
Well, no. We don't genuinely *see* different things on the screen, except in the case of occasions when one person is watching a cut-down version and the other one isn't. When I watch "Games," I see exactly the same visual images that Neil sees when he watches "Games," that Una sees when she watches "Games," that my flatmate sees when he wanders into the room and asks "what are you watching *now*?" That's the canon. If it were possible for two people to watch the same videotape and see different images... well, video manufacturers would be doing a landoffice business :).
It seems to me that when you are using the word "see," you are using it in the sense in which other people on the thread have been using the word "interpretation." And there I *would* agree with you: two people can see the same images and come up with wildly divergent interpretations. But that's a different issue entirely.
(How many times have you thought "which show was _that_ person watching? I know I have, and I'd be surprised if anyone at all hasnt thought it about me.)
I have, but I generally haven't meant it literally... :)
With apologies to H D "when I use canon, it is exactly what I see, no more and no less."
Yes, exactly. But "seeing" and "interpreting" are two different acts, and I'm not sure but they may have gotten confused here?
And I like it that way ... its much more fun to have ,y own input into the show.
But nobody is denying anybody's right to interpretation here-- at least *I'm* not, and I'd be deeply upset if anyone else was.
it; were I to see it like Neil, Fiona, Kathryn, Carol ... anyone else, I possibly wouldnt enjoy it, because I aint them and arent looking for the same things.
If you did see it like me, then quite conceivably you would enjoy it, cos you'd be seeing it like I did :).
Fiona
The Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane See it for yourself at http://nyder.r67.net
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From: Fiona Moore nydersdyner@yahoo.co.uk
Well, no. We don't genuinely *see* different things on the screen, except
in
the case of occasions when one person is watching a cut-down version and
the
other one isn't. When I watch "Games," I see exactly the same visual
images
that Neil sees when he watches "Games," that Una sees when she watches "Games," <snip> It seems to me that when you are using the word "see," you
are using it in
the sense in which other people on the thread have been using the word "interpretation." And there I *would* agree with you: two people can see
the
same images and come up with wildly divergent interpretations. But that's
a
different issue entirely.
I would get even more pedantic and suggest a difference between vision and perception. Perception is what interpretation is built upon. Yes, in terms of dot by on-screen dot, different viewers do literally see the same images. It's the same pattern of light falling onto the retina. But what people see is not necessarily what they perceive.
If I'm walking through the local housing estate and I see the pigeons and starlings go bananas, I know there's a Sparrowhawk about, and if it's not hedge-hopping through leafy suburbia I'll probably spot it. Other people will just peceive pigeons and starlings going bananas and probably won't even wonder why. Most probably won't even perceive the flurry of activity that to me says 'Sparrowhawk!' in big neon letters, yet the image of the birds still gets into their eyes and reaches the back of the brain, where it promptly gets filtered out by the spam trap - unimportant, uninteresting, unworthy of attention.
People perceive what they either want to or need to, and we can doubtless all think of countless examples when it's happened to us. It doesn't have to be a conscious process. Indeed, if you steer your brain in a certain direction, the senses start to run on autopilot. The only time I've seen a stork in Britain, I wasn't birding at all. I was shopping. I wouldn't have seen it if I hadn't looked up, and I only looked up because I could hear the gulls going berserk. Most people spamtrap noisy seagulls because they're a bleeding nuisance. To me they're a cue to start scanning the skies.
We do the same when watching B7. You notice what interests you. This isn't the same as seeing what you want to see: that is an interpretive process (eg; if you want to see a callous manipulative Blake, then you will tend to interpret Blake's actions on the assumption that he *is* callous and manipulative). Subconscious selective perception is all about extracting the raw material on which interpretations are based. If character dynamics are your thing, then that's what you'll notice. If you're into ideological subtexts, you'll notice them instead. Likewise, you overlook the things that are not of particular interest, even though you see (or hear) them. In my case it would be cruisy looks from Dorian, amongst other things. And the Sevencylopaedia entry for Birds shows that my ornithological radar remains active even when I'm slumped in front of the telly. Did you hear the chirruping Linnet in Games? Yes, you did. But did you notice it?
I know this is all rather obvious, but then the obvious can be easily overlooked.
So Sally's got a point - there is no universal canon, shared by all viewers, because we each individually extract different elements of focus *prior to* the construction of our individuated altercanons. Our attention is consciously or subconsciously pulled in particular directions. This was pointed out very clearly to me by Iain's performance workshop at Redemption, where he - as an amateur actor - could point to an instance of appallingly bad acting that I've never noticed before despite seeing it a dozen times or more. He could look up and see the stork, while my eyes were firmly glued to the pavement.
Neil
Neil Faulkner wrote:
We do the same when watching B7. You notice what interests you. This isn't the same as seeing what you want to see: that is an interpretive process
And it should be added that we also see what we have the background to see. I'm not as likely to notice bad physics (never had a physics class) as I am to count the rows of stitching on Dayna's ruched trousers (A's in home ec).
Mistral
From: Mistral mistral@centurytel.net
And it should be added that we also see what we have the background to see. I'm not as likely to notice bad physics (never had a physics class) as I am to count the rows of stitching on Dayna's ruched trousers (A's in home ec).
Probably the other way round with me, since I have no idea what 'ruched' means.
Neil