I like Blake's 7 - I thought I'd like to talk to other Blake seven fans about the show, so I decided to join a mailing list. When I first posted and said hello to you all, and received no response (although, I will add, I have since been welcomed by one person)I didn't think of you all as rude(although if I'd walked into a room full of you people and the same situation occurred, I most definitely would have). I have wasted precious time, giving you all the benefit of the doubt, by posting enough posts, to be sure I actually was being ignored - although, again this was rather obvious, as a couple of points I made in a couple of posts, were later, also stated by someone else - which means that either, they read my posts (agreed with that point at least) but did not wish to directly respond to me *OR* they had similar thoughts but did not know about mine, simply because they couldn't be bothered reading my posts - amounts to the same thing.
You could have told me to bugger off - I wouldn't have liked it(who would?) but because I don't know any of you, you don't actually matter to me - so I would have been able to take it...At least it would have been honest. You people are exceptionally rude.
Cheryl. (Who freely admits to herself, that she is possibly wasting her time, yet again, if no-one is actually reading her posts) *Chuckle*
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Cheryl wrote:
You could have told me to bugger off - I wouldn't have liked it(who would?) but because I don't know any of you, you don't actually matter to me - so I would have been able to take it...At least it would have been honest. You people are exceptionally rude.
Well I must say Cheryl, that you aren't entirely being fair. I think that this is a great list, and i'm sorry that you feel that you are being ignored. I do know that not every post gets responded to and to do so would take a better part of a day, not to mention reading them. I'm the first one to admit that I skim the posts and wholeheartedly attempt to respond to messages that catch my eye. I've also excepted the fact that there are other people that do the same thing. I also have had messages that go unanswered, but I know that i've gotten my message across because someone somewhere would have read it, so what if they haven't, it's the chance you take. This is a list that lets people with the same interests have a say. If they feel like replying then that is their prerogative! Now someone has answered one of your postings!! :)
Min.xxx (thats my two bobs worth <G>)
Now someone has answered one of your postings!! :)
ROTFL!
Min.xxx (thats my two bobs worth <G>)
I appreciate your appraisal of the list et al and it is possible that what you say is true, however; for the sake of the next newcomer to the list, maybe a simple hello in response to theirs would make them feel more welcome - it is difficult for someone who does not know the people they are introducing themselves to, to be able to gauge the difference between what is the norm and what is blatant disregard.
Naturally, I do not expect every one of my posts to be responded to, that would be an unrealistic expectation but so is everyone's assumption that newcomers don't have the 'newbie' jitters and that they are quite content to have one sided conversations until someone decides to respond to their awkward prattle.
However we differ in our opinions on this, I do thank you for your response to my post :-)
Cheryl.
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Cheryl wrote:
I appreciate your appraisal of the list et al and it is possible that what you say is true, however; for the sake of the next newcomer to the list, maybe a simple hello in response to theirs would make them feel more welcome - it is difficult for someone who does not know the people they are introducing themselves to, to be able to gauge the difference between what is the norm and what is blatant disregard.
No doubt and im the first one to offer any apologies. But I will say that I genuinely overlooked the email announcing a new arrival <G> We aren't deliberately ignoring you (though im sure it seems that way) its just been a busy month for some of us. Welcome to the group. :) there ive said it <VBG>
Naturally, I do not expect every one of my posts to be responded to, that would be an unrealistic expectation but so is everyone's assumption that newcomers don't have the 'newbie' jitters and that they are quite content to have one sided conversations until someone decides to respond to their awkward prattle.
However we differ in our opinions on this, I do thank you for your response to my post :-)
Im quite a newbie of sorts myself so dont take things to heart. This list is here to enjoy. So enjoy. Its an unfortunate start but one that is easily rectified. :)
Min.xxx
From: Cheryl _ avonsgirl@yahoo.com.au
I like Blake's 7 - I thought I'd like to talk to other Blake seven fans about the show, so I decided to join a mailing list. When I first posted and said hello to you all, and received no response (although, I will add, I have since been welcomed by one person)I didn't think of you all as rude(although if I'd walked into a room full of you people and the same situation occurred, I most definitely would have).
Be assured that you are not being ignored. I at least am reading your posts, and I'd be very surprised if everyone else wasn't. You're just unfortunate in joining the Lyst at a very busy time, since we're embroiled in deep discussion about fanfic, relative importance of characters, nature of fannishness etc - all subjects guaranteed to hog attention from everything else.
Take the walking into a room analogy (I think a pub would be more appropriate, though that might just be my take on it). Here's a group of people all sitting round a table, they all 'know' each other, and they're all deep in discussion on subjects that they not only know a lot about but care about a lot. Then someone new turns up, a complete stranger, drink in hand, and she finds herself a seat on the corner. Well, that has happened to me quite a few times, and I wasn't surprised to find myself more or less out of the conversation. It's the way things happen. It's not unfriendly, it's not a deliberate snub (though, yes, it can feel like one), it's just that groups of like-minded people, even virtual ones, have a habit of forming cliques that can be hard to penetrate.
On the other hand, you do have a point. We have been a bit discourteous this time. Normally when new arrivals appear they do get a few welcome messages, but then we're not normally so distracted. So may I at least say, Welcome to the Lyst, Cheryl.
(I suggest that rather than try and shout over the crowd, wait until the Lyst gets a bit quieter and settles down to something more like normal, ie about half the volume of posts it's currently generating. You'll then be in a better position to approach us one to one rather than struggle to pitch into the fray.)
I have wasted precious time, giving you all the benefit of the doubt, by posting enough posts, to be sure I actually was being ignored - although, again this was rather obvious, as a couple of points I made in a couple of posts, were later, also stated by someone else - which means that either, they read my posts (agreed with that point at least) but did not wish to directly respond to me *OR* they had similar thoughts but did not know about mine, simply because they couldn't be bothered reading my posts - amounts to the same thing.
It happens, I'm afraid. When two people say much the same thing, and one is a newcomer and the other a long-established member of the clique, then respondees will tend to answer the latter. We don't get the posts as they are posted, or at least I don't, I get them in chunks of 20-30 at a time. So if you're point is somewhere in those 20-30, and someone else makes pretty much the same point in the same chunk, I'm more likely to answer that someone else who has participated in the thread from the beginning. And when the Lyst is this busy, I really do have to prioritise. I know I've sent up to a dozen posts at a time (partly in an attempt to beat Fiona to the prize of Most Posts In a Day, and just after I mailed them off she sent in another one, bastard anthropologist that she is:)), but they have taken up virtually every minute I can spare before or after work (yes, I'm a saddo Lyst junkie, I don't deny it).
I've just resorted my inbox to make a quick count - you have posted 5 times this month prior to this (not entirely unjustified) complaint, compared with me (98 posts), Dana (69), Tavia (44), Sally (68), Helen (66) and Fiona (70 - grud on a greenie, I beat her!), to name just some of the more vociferous posters this month. Can you see how you might be getting drowned out in the babble!
You're also up against some of the most informed, quite possibly opinionated and in my case at least arrogant members of the Lyst who are too busy bludgeoning the opposition with the intellectual weight of their carefully honed arguments to stop to say hello to a new face:) (Actually, any bludgeoning might exist only in my imagination, but it certainly has been a very challenging - and enjoyably so - month for my brain.)
So yes, you have been noticed, but yes, we have been less welcoming than we might have been, or ought to have been. And no, it wasn't anything you said.
Stick around, we'll wear ourselves out eventually.
Neil
You could have told me to bugger off - I wouldn't have liked it(who would?) but because I don't know any of you, you don't actually matter to me - so I would have been able to take it...At least it would have been honest. You people are exceptionally rude.
Cheryl. (Who freely admits to herself, that she is possibly wasting her time, yet again, if no-one is actually reading her posts) *Chuckle*
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Cheryl wrote:
I have wasted precious time, giving you all the benefit of the doubt, by posting enough posts, to be sure I actually was being ignored
Ah. Does that mean that all of us who read your posts were wasting our precious time? I'd be surprised if anyone has been deliberately ignoring you. More likely it's just that nobody had anything in particular to say. Or quite possibly nobody wanted to enter into a debate with a newcomer - we were arguing, after all, and jumping on you might have been perceived as rude, too; 'me too' posts are rare and actually discouraged here - one generally gets an answer when someone either has something to add, or disagrees.
You people are exceptionally rude.
And in a fandom dominated by Avon groupies and/or sympathizers this surprises you why?
OTOH, I could take the position that walking into a roomful of strangers who are sunk deep in conversation, and chewing them out for not conforming to your idea of good manners qualifies you to fit right in ;-)
Seriously, I have spoken to quite a few people who haven't remained on the Lyst for very long, because they didn't care for the atmosphere. I had a great deal of difficulty sticking out the first few months myself, until I'd built enough friendships to have some sense of belonging. It has been worth the effort; but not every person is going to fit into every group. (And if you think we're rude, you should take a peek at some of the Usenet groups.)
So congratulate yourself. You've now had more welcome messages than most newbies get - past one or two is quite rare, as we try not to repeat ourselves (yes, shut up the rest of you lot, I know I'm not that good at it yet!) You've also left me quite vexed, as I've just realized that I've been here for not one, but _two_ of what I previously thought of as very satisfying years, and as far as I can recall, nobody has _ever_ welcomed me! <sob> <sulk> Waaah! I shall just go and have a good cry now...
Mistral
--- Mistral mistral@centurytel.net wrote: > Cheryl wrote:
I have wasted precious time, giving you all the benefit of the doubt, by posting enough posts, to be sure I actually was being ignored
Ah. Does that mean that all of us who read your posts were wasting our precious time?
Not at all, just as my reading all the posts I have read so far, have not been a waste of my time(and had I been less of a newcomer, I would have responded to so many more than I actually did, but I didn't want to come on too strong, when I hadn't actually been responded to yet.) Incidently, I only referred to it as a waste of time, because I had arrived at the conclusion(incorrectly, as it turns out and for which I have apologised)that I was being deliberately ignored.
I'd be surprised if anyone has been deliberately ignoring you. More likely it's just that nobody had anything in particular to say. Or quite possibly nobody wanted to enter into a debate with a newcomer - we were arguing, after all, and jumping on you might have been perceived as rude, too; 'me too' posts are rare and actually discouraged here - one generally gets an answer when someone either has something to add, or disagrees.
Point taken. However; I didn't take the many discussions on the varied topics as arguing. I took it more as a passel of differing opinions and beliefs, with everyone saying their piece, regardless of this; if I stick my nose into the middle of a tussle, I can hardly complain if it gets punched - The same applies in a war of words, I would have been okay with opposition to my thoughts - vehement or otherwise.
You people are exceptionally rude.
And in a fandom dominated by Avon groupies and/or sympathizers this surprises you why?
point 1) I now regret the above statement - I sometimes just say what is on my mind, (without the foresight to temper my words with tact) and that, is what was on my mind at that time.
point 2) It surprises me because Avon is a character and characters don't have to be as real as flesh and blood to be interesting - in fact, it is usually better if they are a little larger than life. However; it is not his rude/offhand manner which appeals to me, there have been times, when I have been annoyed with his pompous attitude - Just looking at Vila and not responding to his question, is one. However; when it comes to his sarcasm and wit I love him and this is something that Vila can respond to, if he so wishes, and has done so. Yet again, this is okay in a TV show, However; In RL, Avon wouldn't last two minutes in my company before I told him to bugger off (I think) :-)
OTOH, I could take the position that walking into a roomful of strangers who are sunk deep in conversation, and chewing them out for not conforming to your idea of good manners qualifies you to fit right in ;-)
LOL! I never looked at it this way - I guess you have a point. It all comes down to individual list etiquette, in my defense, the other lists to which I belong have all given welcomes and the newcomers initial post is always responded to - I guess, I took it as read that this applies everywhere and as it happens, I was mistaken, for which I do apologise.
Seriously, I have spoken to quite a few people who haven't remained on the Lyst for very long, because they didn't care for the atmosphere. I had a great deal of difficulty sticking out the first few months myself, until I'd built enough friendships to have some sense of belonging. It has been worth the effort; but not every person is going to fit into every group. (And if you think we're rude, you should take a peek at some of the Usenet groups.)
I will bear this in mind in future - believe it or not, now that I know that it is not an intentional thing - I have no problems with waiting until someone finds something interesting enough about my posts which would make them wish to respond.
So congratulate yourself. You've now had more welcome messages than most newbies get - past one or two is quite rare, as we try not to repeat ourselves (yes, shut up the rest of you lot, I know I'm not that good at it yet!) You've also left me quite vexed, as I've just realized that I've been here for not one, but _two_ of what I previously thought of as very satisfying years, and as far as I can recall, nobody has _ever_ welcomed me! <sob> <sulk> Waaah! I shall just go and have a good cry now...
Errr, welcome to the list :-)
Cheryl.
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At 22:51 17-2-01 -0800, Mistral wrote:
You've also left me quite vexed, as I've just realized that I've been here for not one, but _two_ of what I previously thought of as very satisfying years, and as far as I can recall, nobody has _ever_ welcomed me! <sob> <sulk> Waaah! I shall just go and have a good cry now...
Oh goody, a hurt/comfort thread. There, there, you're very welcome...
<hug>
Jacqueline
Mistral wrote:
I've just realized that I've been here for not one, but _two_ of what I previously thought of as very satisfying years, and as far as I can recall, nobody has _ever_ welcomed me! <sob> <sulk> Waaah! I shall just go and have a good cry now...
Is it time for a group hug?
Una
From: Una McCormack una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk
Mistral:
Una McCormack wrote:
Is it time for a group hug?
Ewwwww!!! Not!
Thought that would get you back in the fighting spirit.
Well done, Una. With a bit of luck she might not realise that she's *never* been welcome on the Lyst.
Neil
Neil Faulkner wrote:
From: Una McCormack una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk
Mistral:
Una McCormack wrote:
Is it time for a group hug?
Ewwwww!!! Not!
Thought that would get you back in the fighting spirit.
Well done, Una. With a bit of luck she might not realise that she's *never* been welcome on the Lyst.
Oooh, I feel all warm and tingly now.
Mistral
On Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 02:04:58PM -0000, Una McCormack wrote:
Mistral:
Una McCormack wrote:
Is it time for a group hug?
Ewwwww!!! Not!
Thought that would get you back in the fighting spirit.
LOL!
Though the sentiment that Mistral expressed so eloquently is one that I also agree with.
Kathryn "one hug at a time" Andersen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Avon: These are what you wanted to protect. Blake: They're fighting for their lives. Avon: Who isn't? (Blake's 7: The Web [A5])
"Cheryl" == Cheryl avonsgirl@yahoo.com.au writes:
You people are exceptionally rude.
Prior to that posting, you had posted four times to the list. During the time from your first post until your complaint (2001-02-02 to 2001-02-18) there were over nine hundred other postings made.
Consider the possibility that your posts were simply lost in the multitude.
On Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 12:08:36PM +1100, Cheryl _ wrote:
You could have told me to bugger off - I wouldn't have liked it(who would?) but because I don't know any of you, you don't actually matter to me - so I would have been able to take it...At least it would have been honest. You people are exceptionally rude.
If we have been rude, I assure you, it was nothing personal. How long have you been on the net? To expect more of us is being a bit unreasonable.
Whether *I* respond to a post or not has got nothing to do with whoever posted it, but with the content of the post; whether it's said something that I want to respond to. Half the time I don't even notice who posted it, even when they're names I know. Yes, there are names that I recognise, because they're vociforous or eloquent or controversial posters, or have been here a long time, or have become friends over the years...
How many names can I remember without prompting? Calle (our ListOwner), Judith Proctor, Mistral, Neil Faulkner, Carol "The Godmother" McCoy, Leah Rosenthal, Annie Wortham, Tavia, Sally Manton, Sondra Swiegman, Ross Mallet, Natasa, Sue Beth, and... er... um... That's about a dozen. And how many are there on the list? About 300.
If you *really* want so desperately to be noticed, you could always be a troll like Wendy, but I don't reccommend it. Or is that actually what you're doing, in calling us "exceptionally rude"?
Look, I spend 2-4 hours a day reading my email, with the various mailing lists I'm on. I am *never* going to respond to every post. To expect me to is being completely unfair and ruddy unreasonable. (goes off and checks mailbox) Okay, I've sent 18 posts to the list this month. Of those 18, one of them was initiating a new thread, all the others were responses. I'm not sure what that signifies...
Kathryn Andersen (tired and hot) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- "If your head comes away from your neck, it's over!" -- Ramirez (Highlander)
-
Calle Dybedahl -
Cheryl _ -
Jacqueline Thijsen -
Kathryn Andersen -
Minnie -
Mistral -
Neil Faulkner -
Una McCormack