Is it my own Avon-centric p.o.v., or is there a reason it seems that Avon is the easiest to find 'avatars' of in other fiction, followed, probably, by Vila? I'm thinking it is just the brooding INTJ male appeals to writers. Snape from Harry Potter; Zelgadis from The Slayers; all the deliberate avatars created by fans in tribute; Mr. Darcy; and I can't remember how many others I've spotted. In contrast, Blake seems more difficult to find eqivalents of, possibly because he is less of a type? He's often compared to Robin Hood. Maybe King Arthur could be another avatar. Vila is an Artful Dodger, and can be found in lovable rogues throughout many stories. Dayna is of the Diana/Belephe female huntress type, which is avatared fairly infrequently these days.
Is there anyone good at spotting non-Avon avatars who'd like to weigh in on this?
In message 3C1EA6DF.DBFCFE2A@jps.net, Helen Krummenacker avona@jps.net writes
In contrast, Blake seems more difficult to find eqivalents of, possibly because he is less of a type? He's often compared to Robin Hood.
Possibly because he *is* Robin Hood - Terry Nation described the series concept as Robin Hood leading the Dirty Dozen in space. Blake is a deliberate avatar of Robin. So much so that I'm not sure whether the Robin Hood in Gayle Feyrer's "Thief's Mistress" is an intentional Blake avatar, or whether I'm just seeing it because Blake is Robin anyway.
There are non-Avon avatars out there - my favourite so far is the Blake avatar in C S Friedman's Coldfire trilogy
Julia Jones wrote:
There are non-Avon avatars out there - my favourite so far is the Blake avatar in C S Friedman's Coldfire trilogy
I actually like Vryce quite a bit better than Blake; he grows and changes, and you also get a better sense of what motivates him. The Vryce-Tarrant relationship is wonderful as well; just what Blake-Avon could have been if there had been more time taken to explore it.
Is there any confirmation that these are deliberate avatars, or even that Friedman is familiar with B7? I did a quick spin through her web site once, but didn't find anything there to suggest it.
Mistral
Is it my own Avon-centric p.o.v., or is there a reason it seems that Avon is the easiest to find 'avatars' of in other fiction, followed, probably, by Vila? I'm thinking it is just the brooding INTJ male appeals to writers. Snape from Harry Potter; Zelgadis from The Slayers; all the deliberate avatars created by fans in tribute; Mr. Darcy; and I can't remember how many others I've spotted. In contrast, Blake seems more difficult to find eqivalents of, possibly because he is less of a type? He's often compared to Robin Hood. Maybe King Arthur could be another avatar. Vila is an Artful Dodger, and can be found in lovable rogues throughout many stories. Dayna is of the Diana/Belephe female huntress type, which is avatared fairly infrequently these days.
Is there anyone good at spotting non-Avon avatars who'd like to weigh in on this?
I was wondering would Galen from Babylon 5's spin off Crusade be an Avon avatar? And maybe Gideon as Blake or Max as Avon, help I can't think with so many Avon like characters running around. :-) Anyone think of any other tv shows with avatars for Blake's 7?
CJSGalen Tereth Dragonstar
captjohns wrote:
I was wondering would Galen from Babylon 5's spin off Crusade be an Avonavatar?
I think so, though most people seem to see Max as Avon. I see Galen as the person Avon might have been had he grown up in an environment somewhat more suited to his interests and personality.
And maybe Gideon as Blake or Max as Avon, help I can't think with so many Avon like characters running around. :-) Anyone think of any other tv shows with avatars for Blake's 7?
Andromeda's swimming in them.
Mistral
I think so, though most people seem to see Max as Avon. I see Galen as the person Avon might have been had he grown up in an environment somewhat more suited to his interests and personality.
Oh now there is a great idea. An AU where Avon grew up in just such an enviroment and still some how winds up on London. Now that would be interesting to say the least. Anyone want to give that idea a try?
Andromeda's swimming in them.
Mistral
Ok I'm missing things totally, who is what avatar on Andromeda? I can't place anyone on that show with Blake's 7.
CJSGalen Tereth Dragonstar
Responding to Mistral, captjohns wrote:
Andromeda's swimming in them.
Ok I'm missing things totally, who is what avatar on Andromeda? I can'tplace anyone on that show with Blake's 7.
Dylan's very Blake-like in many ways... Charismatic idealist, leads relucant group of criminal-types on a possibly hopeless quest by sheer force of his personality. Tyr has definite echoes of Avon: the cynicism, the sarcastic wit, the avowed total selfishness. One might draw a comparison between Beka and Jenna: tough blonde smuggler pilots, both, though I hate to say it, but Beka's a much more fully-drawn character than Jenna ever really got a chance to be, unfortunately. If one really wanted to stretch things a bit, one might draw a comparison between Cally and Trance (mysterious alien with poorly-defined paranormal powers) or even Cally and Rev (alien mystics who are often more concerned with moral issues than their crewmates). Rommie is nothing like Zen, but the _Andromeda_ itself compares quite easily to the _Liberator_, being just about the biggest, most powerful, most kick-ass ship in the galaxy.
I don't know to what extent the parallels were deliberate (though I supsect they weren't *entirely* accidental)... As I suggested here some time ago, I think it may just be that B7 was ahead of its time, and its time has finally come, which is why we're seeing variations on its basic formula all over the place these days...
On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Betty Ragan wrote:
Andromeda's swimming in them.
Ok I'm missing things totally, who is what avatar on Andromeda? I can'tplace anyone on that show with Blake's 7.
[match-ups cut]
I don't know to what extent the parallels were deliberate (though I supsect they weren't *entirely* accidental)... As I suggested here some time ago, I think it may just be that B7 was ahead of its time, and its time has finally come, which is why we're seeing variations on its basic formula all over the place these days... -- Betty Ragan ** ragan@sdc.org ** http://www.sdc.org/~ragan/
Apparently it *is* accidental. A week or two ago somebody on some list posted a URL (which I cannot find now) for a site with interviews with the person who did almost all the writing for Andromeda (a lot himself, and he was in charge of the "team") - that is, until TPTB (including Sorbo) decided they wanted to change to a more action-oriented show. It seems they believed arcs and character interaction would confuse the audience. Anyway, he was asked if he had based anything on "Blakes 7" and he said he'd never seen it.
Sandra Kisner sjk3@cornell.edu
sjk3@cornell.edu wrote:
I don't know to what extent the parallels were deliberate (though I supsect they weren't *entirely* accidental)... As I suggested here some time ago, I think it may just be that B7 was ahead of its time, and its time has finally come, which is why we're seeing variations on its basic formula all over the place these days... -- Betty Ragan ** ragan@sdc.org ** http://www.sdc.org/~ragan/
Apparently it *is* accidental. A week or two ago somebody on somelist posted a URL (which I cannot find now) for a site with interviews with the person who did almost all the writing for Andromeda (a lot himself, and he was in charge of the "team") - that is, until TPTB (including Sorbo) decided they wanted to change to a more action-oriented show. It seems they believed arcs and character interaction would confuse the audience. Anyway, he was asked if he had based anything on "Blakes 7" and he said he'd never seen it.
Which may be entirely true, but I find it *really* hard to believe, especially as there was mention of off-screen characters named Jenna and Blake - I think in the same episode. Though I've also heard that Tyr was written specifically for Keith Hamilton Cobb at Tribune's insistence.
Maybe some of the rest of the writing team are Blakes 7 fans, if Robert Wolfe is not.
Mistral
Betty wrote:
or even Cally and Rev (alien mystics who are often more concerned with moral issues than their crewmates).
Rev Bem in Gan - with a nice twist, that he opposes killing because of the violent background of his species, a moral limiter rather than a physical one.
Harriet Monkhouse wrote:
Rev Bem in Gan - with a nice twist, that he opposes killing because of the violent background of his species, a moral limiter rather than a physical one.
Ah, good point! And there's even an episode in which that "limiter" is in danger of failing... (Religioius practices be damned, IMHO going on a fast is criminally irresponsible for a Magog!)
Betty Ragan wrote:
One might draw a comparison between Beka and Jenna: tough blonde smuggler pilots, both, though I hate to say it, but Beka's a much more fully-drawn character than Jenna ever really got a chance to be, unfortunately.
Beka *is* Jenna, the way Jenna should have been written. She really is the strongest parallel IMO, followed closely by Harper. And there's absolutely no question but that my favorite scenes are the Tyr-Harper ones.
It's also interesting that Blake was trying to bring down a government, while Dylan is trying to restore one that had been destroyed. You could blame that on cheery American SF, were it not for the fact that Tribune's Canadian (IIUC).
Mistral
Tereth wrote:
I was wondering would Galen from Babylon 5's spin off Crusade be an Avon avatar? And maybe Gideon as Blake or Max as Avon, help I can't think with so many Avon like characters running around. :-) Anyone think of any other tv shows with avatars for Blake's 7?
Even Avon isn't *that* irritating - I'd have Galen down for Orac. The interesting thing about Crusade is that JMS used the six humans plus talking box formula, but unlike, say, Andromeda, the characters don't map directly on to the B7 originals - eg Dureena combines alien female (Cally) plus thief (Vila).
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Mistral Amara -
sjk3＠cornell.edu