Blakes7 March 2001

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96 participants
1067 discussions

Re: [B7L] Horizon and Redemption
by littles＠lycos.co.uk 01 Mar '01

01 Mar '01

Sorry if this one goes through twice. I'm having trouble posting lately (bloody Lycos..) Neil: > Not so. Diane's anti-slash policy is not, as > far as I can tell, merely > cynical, more properly not really cynical at > all. Having met Diane, and > talked to Diane, albeit not for some years > now, and heard odd comments from > her on this subject, I would say her concern > for the feelings of the actors > is quite genuine, though she does seem to use > this to bolster her own > personal antipathy to nude art and slash. > Hetfic seems to be okay with her, since I > believe Horizon launched their > Ultra hetzine at Deliverance 98. That's interesting. Wonder why she called her convention "Deliverance"? She doesn't seem the Meegat type. > But whatever her antipathies, they've got > nothing to do with Judith as far > as I'm aware, and go back way before Judith > arrived on the scene. Fair comment. There is a > rift between Diane and Judith, as there is > between Diane and quite a lot of > other people (me included), but that is their > affair. Well, no, not if it affects fandom in a wider capacity. If you say Diane hates slash, then I believe you. But reading the memo that was leaked (which I'm sure you've read as well), it's clear that although Diane may hate slash, she's using her position as a pretext for something else. And it did contain a number of nasty-sounding personal attacks on Judith Proctor. Since you seem to be > familiar with the archives I'm only familiar with what people direct me to. Thanks for the information, I'll go and have a look. then you'll know > what was posted last March on > the subject of Diane and Horizon. It achieved > nothing then, and trying to > stir it up afresh will achieve nothing now. I have a great deal of respect for you, Neil, but I'm not taking that. I just don't like bullying, and bullies prosper when they go unreported and unchallenged. The Redemption committee may be a bit soft, and Judith Proctor may have done some silly things, but that is no reason to stand back and allow Horizon to knock their convention about. Unless anything new comes up, that absolutely needs an answer, this will be my last posting on the subject. Shane "In the end, winning is the only safety" --Avon

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Re: [B7L] Horizon and Redemption
by littles＠lycos.co.uk 01 Mar '01

01 Mar '01

Neil: > Not so. Diane's anti-slash policy is not, as > far as I can tell, merely > cynical, more properly not really cynical at > all. Having met Diane, and > talked to Diane, albeit not for some years > now, and heard odd comments from > her on this subject, I would say her concern > for the feelings of the actors > is quite genuine, though she does seem to use > this to bolster her own > personal antipathy to nude art and slash. > Hetfic seems to be okay with her, since I > believe Horizon launched their > Ultra hetzine at Deliverance 98. That's interesting. Wonder why she called her convention "Deliverance"? She doesn't seem the Meegat type. > But whatever her antipathies, they've got > nothing to do with Judith as far > as I'm aware, and go back way before Judith > arrived on the scene. Fair comment. There is a > rift between Diane and Judith, as there is > between Diane and quite a lot of > other people (me included), but that is their > affair. Well, no, not if it affects fandom in a wider capacity. If you say Diane hates slash, then I believe you. But reading the memo that was leaked (which I'm sure you've read as well), it's clear that although Diane may hate slash, she's using her position as a pretext for something else. And it did contain a number of nasty-sounding personal attacks on Judith Proctor. Since you seem to be > familiar with the archives I'm only familiar with what people direct me to. Thanks for the information, I'll go and have a look. then you'll know > what was posted last March on > the subject of Diane and Horizon. It achieved > nothing then, and trying to > stir it up afresh will achieve nothing now. I have a great deal of respect for you, Neil, but I'm not taking that. I just don't like bullying, and bullies prosper when they go unreported and unchallenged. The Redemption committee may be a bit soft, and Judith Proctor may have done some silly things, but that is no reason to stand back and allow Horizon to knock their convention about. Unless anything new comes up, that absolutely needs an answer, this will be my last posting on the subject. Shane "In the end, winning is the only safety" --Avon

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Re: [B7L] Hurt/Comfort and all that
by Sally Manton 01 Mar '01

01 Mar '01

Annie wrote: <In fact, I did an entire zine called Serrated Seven that was nothing BUT h/c stories.> I've got that one, and very nice it is too. BTW, while we're on the subject, can I say a thank you *for* all those B7 zines, and the great enjoyment a rather late returnee-to-the-fold (it took me till 1998 to forgive everyone concerned for the last ten minutes of 'Blake') is getting from them? Sally _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Hurt/Comfort and all that
by Ashton7＠aol.com 01 Mar '01

01 Mar '01

In a message dated 3/1/01 2:34:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, smanton(a)hotmail.com writes: << Annie wrote: Yes!!!! I'll be in thanking anyone and everyone involved ... >> You betcha. I think we invented slash, too. And lots of other nifty things. Anything else folks on the list want to make sure we get the credit for???? BTW, I was counting zines on my web page tonight (in preparation for getting the masters back from Linda Knights) and discovered that I have published something like 37 Blakes 7 zines over the years! Sheesh! Quite a number of them had hurt/comfort in them and quite a number of them had slash. In fact, I did an entire zine called Serrated Seven that was nothing BUT h/c stories. So, I intend to take credit for being partially responsible for inventing those sub-genres. ;-) Annie

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Re: [B7L] Hurt/Comfort and all that
by Sally Manton 01 Mar '01

01 Mar '01

Annie wrote: <I think we're taking the wrong approach to this whole discussion, actually. There seems to be a lot of "blame" wanting to be spread around. Heck, I love h/c. Okay, then. Give us clever Americans the *credit*. Thankyouverramuch. ;-)> Yes!!!! I'll be in thanking anyone and everyone involved ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Hurt/Comfort and all that
by Ashton7＠aol.com 01 Mar '01

01 Mar '01

In a message dated 2/28/01 9:46:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, avona(a)jps.net writes: << There is nothing new under the sun. Don't blame it on the Americans. >> I think we're taking the wrong approach to this whole discussion, actually. There seems to be a lot of "blame" wanting to be spread around. Heck, I love h/c. Okay, then. Give us clever Americans the *credit*. Thankyouverramuch. ;-) Annie

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Re: [B7L] Horizon and Redemption
by Ashton7＠aol.com 01 Mar '01

01 Mar '01

In a message dated 2/28/01 8:51:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, N.Faulkner(a)tesco.net writes: << Hetfic seems to be okay with her, since I believe Horizon launched their Ultra hetzine at Deliverance 98. >> Horizon published the very first Blakes 7 adult zines for years. It was called Alternative 7. For years after they stopped publishing new issues, they still published reprints. I have no idea if they still do so. Most, if not all, of the zines were het adult, although I have a niggling memory that one or two MIGHT have had slash in them. I'm not sure of that, though. I do know they were het and very explicit (some of the stories). There is an old story that someone sent Gareth Thomas a copy of one of the issues with a story about Blake and Jenna doing the wild thing. Supposedly, he sent it back with "notes" such as "That would be very painful" and the like. I don't know whether that story is apophycral or not. Annie

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Re: [B7L] Horizon and Redemption
by Sally Manton 01 Mar '01

01 Mar '01

Tavia wrote: <Please please please for the sakes of Everyone's sanity can we kill this 'discussion' ?> Plus is showing the potential to turn nasty at any given moment, with absolutely no benefit to anyone concerned. I second the motion. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Brit-char-speak
by Ellynne G. 01 Mar '01

01 Mar '01

On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:00:51 +0000 Julia Jones <julia.jones(a)jajones.demon.co.uk> writes: > This is actually one of the things I had in mind. Much (not all) > British > sf has at the least a downbeat tone, the most obvious example other > than > B7 springing to my mind being 1984. The Doctor doesn't always win, > either. It's something I can find off-putting about older American > media > sf, that there's always a neat resolution within 45 minutes, the > good > guys always win, you can tell who the good guys are... Having noticed that a lot of my favorite shows and authors are British, I'd like to add something else. American SF&F is heavily oriented to 'big' stories. In Jordan's Wheel of TIme, everything is on a big scale (sample decisions various characters face: to conquor the world or not? to substantially change the nature of magic [and the world] or not? to revamp entire civilizations and shake them to their core or not? etc). Star Wars . . . see comments on Wheel of Time. Star Trek . . . see comments on Star Wars. British SF&F takes the small scale seriously. Some of the most memorable B7 episodes dealt with the lives and/or deaths of a small handful. Look at even the 'big' episodes. Star One isn't about the whole equivilant of WW II, it's about the decision of some exceptionally difficult Spartans to hold the line at Thermopylae. Even in children's books, in Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, (spoiler alert) Harry doesn't clear his godfather's name, he doesn't save Lupin's job, change Snape, or change the landscape in any earthquake level way. Even what he does do - saving two lives - is precarious (Sirius and Buckbeak are still in danger of recapture and death) and entails a dangerous defeat (Wormtail's escape and Voldemort's eventual return). Compare that to a certain adventure series I could name where the main characters have had to save the Earth again - and again - and again - and ad nauseum. All without dealing the enemy a mortal blow that might end the series. That may be part of what makes B7 enduring. You can only save the world so many times before 1) it gets stale and 2) you really start wondering about the odds on these heroes _never_ losing. Bad as it is, the characters in B7 can lose and the universe doesn't come to an end. Even the cause they fought for, albeit badly wounded, isn't lost without them. Their stories are the battles, not the war. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: [B7L] To apologise or not to apologise
by Ellynne G. 01 Mar '01

01 Mar '01

On Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:51:21 -0000 "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner(a)tesco.net> writes: > From: Ellynne G. <rilliara(a)juno.com> > > For me, killing Blake is one step too far (the same if Avon had > killed > > Vila). Without extenuating circumstances, this is just more than > I can > > take from him. > > A death is a death is a death. Who killed whom is immaterial. What > makes > Avon so special? What makes Blake so special? Avon killed plenty > of other > people through the course of the series. Come to think of it, so > did Blake. Death in B7 ranged from clearly justified self-defense, military casualties (often [but not always] justified to the extent that Blake's war is justified [a debated point, I know] or that the characters involvement in it is justified), revenge (justification depending on attitudes towards revenge in general and its place in a lawless universe in particular), and expediency (a bad thing, although the rock and a hard place element in B7 keeps all sympathy from vanishing [maybe it shouldn't, but it does]). I never had any doubts that, by my code or by Avon's more twisted code of ethics (which probably resembles a tesseract version of a rubic's cube), Blake's death was murder - and not just any murder. Murders that occur within a certain bond - a parent who kills a child, a husband who kills his wife - is more terrible than the killing of a stranger because of the bond that's been violated. There's a reason the tragedy of civil war is usually summarized with phrases like 'brother against brother, father against son.' Leaving me and my feelings out of it, for most of what Avon's done, he can justify himself (if only to himself, see the above list). I don't see him ever justifying the end of Blake to himself (trying, yes, succeeding, no). As for the things I liked about him, I don't see them surviving either (although Avon might). JMHO. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Blakes7 March 2001