Blakes7 March 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

96 participants
1067 discussions

Re: [B7L] reasons
by Shane Little 26 Mar '01

26 Mar '01

Lisa wrote: >Shane Little wrote: > >>But the original show was about politics, not sex, after all, and >>we >>shouldn't let the politics of it be overwhelmed by the sex. > >Who's "we" Me and my militant army of slash-eating penguins, that's who. >, and why shouldn't "we" Because you're missing out on a whole range of experience, that's why. >, and who are you to say what "we" >should >or shouldn't do, anyhow? Oh, no one, I'm just expressing an opinion. No law against that as far as I know. Yet. >Personally, I've never thought of the original show being about >politics, So why exactly did you think Blake and Co. were on the run? >and that aspect of it holds very little interest for me. (Mind you, >I don't >think of it as being about sex either, if that makes you any >happier...) Well, what is it about for you then? >>I'm sure there's very political slash out there but most of it does >>seem >>to be just PWP. > >I was going to respond to this, but then you did it for me in your >next >message: > >>You've only been reading the porn then. Plenty of writing by and >>for gay >>men deals with other aspects of life (even though they may write >>about sex >>as well). > >Substitute "slash" instead of "writing by and for gay men", and you >have my >response. (Thank you.) Well, you're welcome, but I've never denied it. What I find really objectionable is explicit artwork without permission, despite the subjects' objections to it. I'm not too keen on PWP either, but if a slash story does have a serious message I say well done. >There's certainly a fair bit of PWP around -- >why >shouldn't there be, if there are people who enjoy writing and >reading it? >-- but it's a far cry from "most". I want stats! >>Shouldn't they be read by gay men too? Or do you want to keep slash >>your >>own private club? > >There are gay men who do read (and write) slash. The point is that >the >majority of it is not being written *for* them, i.e. with them in >mind as >the target audience, not that they "shouldn't" read it if they want >to. No, it isn't the target audience, it's true. But it does bug me to think of a distorted version of my lifestyle turned into somebody else's fantasy (funny, I have a lesbian friend who said exactly the same thing about those videos for straight men that purport to show lesbians. Never knew how she felt till I discovered certain areas of B7 fandom). If you want to read this sort of slash as a fantasy, fair enough-- but it doesn't have much to do either with gay lifestyles _or_ with the programme itself. Shane "(click) Aaaarow!" -ORAC Who needs Cupid? Matchmaker.com is the place to meet somebody. FREE Two-week Trial Membership at http://www.matchmaker.com/home?rs=200015

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Re: [B7L] Homophobia
by Shane Little 26 Mar '01

26 Mar '01

Annie wrote: >Exactly. It is an insult and I certainly took it that way. Calling slash >"character assassination" is also more likely to be perceived as an insult >than an opening to a discussion. But the way you present slash, it _is_ a form of character assassination. Twisting characters around so they're not like the writers intended... using actors' likenesses without their permission in ways you _know_ they don't approve of... taking a show which was basically about fascism and resistance and turning it into some kind of hardcore fantasy... seems to me like a form of violation. >And then folks wonder why lists like Freedom >City have to exist and why there can't be open discussion among fans about >slash. _Au contraire,_ Annie. Look at Fiona and Betty's discussion last month on the canonicity of slash. Look at Tavia and Dana's intelligent posts on the politics of slash-writing. Nobody was calling anybody names-- until _you_ came in and started calling people sick and disgusting. You're just trying to prevent slash from becoming a subject for intelligent discussion, you are. >Personally, I don't give a flying flip if someone else doesn't like >slash, whatever their reasons. It's not like anyone is forcing you to read >said "character assassination" against your will. If you don't like it, don't >read it. Problem solved. You might want to go back and read what Mistral (I think) said about how if you're using Netscape, your browser opens offensive posts before you've had a chance to delete them... and you might want to consider that newbies to fandom often get slash presented to them as the 'thing to do' in fandom before they know the other side... or that again, people have been known to buy slash zines without knowing what they are, or find a slash story in a mixed zine... in short, there's a lot of ways for people who don't want to read slash to come across it. I bought five slash zines in an auction some years back, I had no idea they were slash until I cracked the spines. Have you ever wondered why people keep complaining about it? I've come to respect some of the people on this lyst who post in favour of slash... but not the people who are continually in-your-face, offensive and generally snarky about it. Guess who I'm talking about. Shane Largo: Why do I feel as if I'm on trial here? Avon: Why do I feel as if you should be? Who needs Cupid? Matchmaker.com is the place to meet somebody. FREE Two-week Trial Membership at http://www.matchmaker.com/home?rs=200015

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Re: [B7L] Gender and fanfic [thoroughly hijacked now]
by Fiona Moore 26 Mar '01

26 Mar '01

>From: Harriet Monkhouse <hflysator(a)jarriere.demon.co.uk> >To: Blake's 7 Lysator <blakes7(a)lists.lysator.liu.se> >Subject: Re: [B7L] Gender and fanfic >Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 15:47:22 +0100 > >Fiona wrote: > >PS to Una and Tavia: OK, OK. Cambridge won already. What do you do, > >genetically engineer your rowing team? > >We woz robbed! They dropped an oar and were allowed to stop and pick it >up! That would never have happened in B7! Oh yes, it would-- I'm sure the Federation Rowing Team cheated all the time... Fiona The Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane Available for public perusal at http://nyder.r67.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: [B7L] reasons
by Fiona Moore 26 Mar '01

26 Mar '01

>From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling(a)worldnet.att.net> >Shane said: > >But the original show was about politics, not > > sex, after all, >The original show wasn't really very much about politics-- Dunno about that-- have you read Jim Smith's episode reviews in Zenith and in Horizon 39, on "Trial" and "Gambit"? Quite a bit of the series seems to be about politics of a very Byzantine level of complexity and intrigue. >we don't even know the name of the last President before >Servalan, for instance, or what Sleer was Commissioner of, or >how the Federation was structured and administered, or how >the caste system worked... We don't even know what sort of governmental system the fictional country of Terry Gilliam's "Brazil" had, but that doesn't make it any less a political story. >The original show was in large part >about blowing things up, which may have had an element of >sublimation for the characters. I'd say it had less to do with sublimation and more to do with terrorism. > Actually I'd say by now >most slash stories are NOT PWPs, the sex occurs in the >context of a plot (although it might be a romantic rather than >an action plot). A story might concentrate on science, or anthropology, >or fashion, with a greater or lesser degree of explicit depiction of >sexual activity between some pairing(s). Just to play devil's advocate here, some people might ask why the sex is necessary at all. Some think it gets in the way of a good story. >I certainly wouldn't say that all slash stories are terrific--some >of them are perfectly awful--or even that they necessarily >involve any psychological subtlety--just that a slash story doesn't >rule out the possibility of being good science fiction, sociology, >psychology, action/adventure, etc., merely by adding the potential >for being effective smut. Well, I've read (and enjoyed) some of your stories, and I agree from those that it is quite possible to do slash with interesting premises and messages. But I think it's the awful ones that people object to more than the interesting ones. If I want to read sex for sex's sake, frankly, I'll buy a porn mag. Fiona The Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane Available for public perusal at http://nyder.r67.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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re: [B7L] Blake's 7 newsletter (in full)
by kevs McCully 26 Mar '01

26 Mar '01

"Sue Wong" <suewong(a)click2asia.com> said: >I note the poster chose to edit the Blake's 7 >newsletter for some reason. How strange! I thought that most of it was irrelevant twaddle, and wouldn't be appreciated by the majorty of readers. It seemed to be aimed at people who have only a casual interest in B7, esp. the "original cast, where are they now.." section. I also realise that some folks will be on the list anyway. Still, can't please everyone... *s* HTH, kevs ===== "Under an Aussie sky..." http://www.southernsky.fsnet.co.uk "afterglow", http://www.afterglow.fsnet.co.uk Kevin C McCully "The world is what you make it". _____________________________________________________________________________ http://calendar.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Calendar - Access your appointments and meetings online.

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Re: [B7L] Homophobia
by Jenny Kaye 26 Mar '01

26 Mar '01

Annie wrote: >Exactly. It is an insult and I certainly took it that way. Calling slash >"character assassination" is also more likely to be perceived as an insult >than an opening to a discussion. Annie, I've only been on the lyst three weeks but one of the things that's impressed me most is the way its members discuss sensitive topics like slash in an intelligent, mature and calm fashion without letting their personal feelings about homosexuality come into it. Please, could everyone just talk about slash, not about morals? Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Unlikely lust objects
by J MacQueen 26 Mar '01

26 Mar '01

>From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner(a)tesco.net> >From: J MacQueen <j_macqueen(a)hotmail.com> > > >"The Power of Og". Sounds like a Doctor Who story. > > Or a B7 filk, if you can bear to listen to Celine Dion/Jennifer Rush for > > long enough to compose it. >No way. Frankie rules! Og as "The Hooded Claw". Not material for Steve - there's no way he'd have protection from such a character in mind. Actually, I'm sorry to do this, but I'm going to mention Huey Lewis and The News... Regards Joanne _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Homophobia
by Tavia 26 Mar '01

26 Mar '01

Furthermore, Ellynne wrote: >Actually, it seems to be one of those issues that _can't_ be >discussed these days. I mean besides the fact that taking >certain positions on it openly is not approved. To be on >one side or the other is to accept certain ethical ideas >that seem to speak foriegn languages. I don't think any >of us know how to discuss them anymore, if we ever did. Actually I beg to differ, I had a long and friendly discussion on this very topic with a Christian friend this very Friday. We disagree radically. Neither of us changed the other's views, but perhaps we each made the other think a touch. I believe with mutual respect one can discuss pretty much anything, but then that's perhaps hard to achieve on a one--many basis on a mailing list. Mebbe we can try, though? Tavia

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Re: [B7L] Homophobia
by Marian de Haan 25 Mar '01

25 Mar '01

Jacqueline wrote: >very soon gay people will be able to get married in Holland< And then we can wait for the first gay couple wanting a divorce :-) Ob B7: For all we know about the the characters' past, they could have all been married and divorced several times. Marian

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RE: [B7L] reasons
by Louise Rutter 25 Mar '01

25 Mar '01

Shane wrote: >> >and doesn't give much of a voice to lesbians > >> No, that gets left to the f/f ers, they are out there. >Don't hear much from them though, do you? Relatively speaking... You should have been on freedom city yesterday.... Louise

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Blakes7 March 2001