Blakes7 April 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

70 participants
295 discussions

Re: [B7L] Terry Nation as Writer
by Fiona Moore 03 Apr '01

03 Apr '01

>From: Tavia <tavia(a)btinternet.com> >Re Fiona's interesting post. Thank you :). >One could postulate other reasons for the set-up in 'Aftermath'. > >The episode is obviously intended to introduce Dayna. Reading 'The Inside >Story' it's apparent that Josette Simon was hired primarily for her skin >colour, youth, looks, and lack of ethnic or American accent. Although Anthony Brown, the editor of InVision, had a chance recently to see the contemporary list of people up for the part, and tells me that they weren't specifically looking for an ethnic actress when they were casting (he's also, btw, the man who got me the interesting bit of trivia about Maurice "Gangsters" Colbourne having been up for the part of Blake). IIRC the character had been created and the episode written before they were sure Josette Simon was hired, too--though they might have changed the name of the character at some point, I'm not sure. >there mentions only David Moloney and Vere Lorimer in this context, but >it's hard to see that they would have made casting decisions impacting so >obviously on character without overt back-up from Terry Nation, who owned >the concept and continued to write three key 3rd season episodes. On a >'give the gal a USP' principle, this blank young slate acquires the weapons >tech background. From there on in, one can see the episode 'Aftermath' >developing ... sexually naive young gal (the kiss in the cave), weapons >tech background (all the Hal Mellanby stuff to which Fiona refers), oh dear >we've lost Jenna, so we need a blonde bimbette replacement (Lauren). Following you on all of these, but I feel a bit lost on the last statement. AFAIK, Lauren was never intended to become a regular-- do you mean she was brought in to let the viewers think that she was going to join the crew? Or because the episode needed some blonde content :)? >Hack >writing at its worst (best?). But the fact that he was writing to a formula doesn't necessarily make the episode bad, or non-complex. Dickens was the perennial hack writer, after all, writing to a blatant formula; so was Sir Arthur Conan Doyle; Hemingway and Jules Verne had their hack episodes. All of these have produced works in this context which are no less than brilliant. I think what you say is right-- that Nation was given a particular set of things he had to do in Aftermath (introduce Dayna and give her some characterisation, tie up the loose ends of "Star One," introduce Tarrant at the very end). But I don't particularly see why he can't, within those confines, come up with something very good. Chris Boucher faced similar constraints on "Star One," after all. >I'm not saying this is what happened, but I think it's a plausible >alternative scenario. And I say it needn't necessarily be alternative, but I don't think the fact that it was being written as a character-introductory vehicle necessarily makes it a bad story, and indeed, it's stood up to analysis very well, I think. >Considering the 9 Chris Boucher episodes *as a whole*, a high proportion of >them have the plot complexity, the political machinations &c that Fiona >characterises as his style, though there are exceptions (Rescue, City). Yes-- though I think Rescue's brilliant too, myself (saw it over Christmas, fantastic). I haven't seen City in about a year, though, so I can't comment. >Considering the 19 Terry Nation episodes *as a whole*, a high proportion of >them appear to be basically hack adventure writing with any complexities >sufficiently well hidden as to escape this viewer entirely. Erm, well... remember how when we looked at Deliverance (which I for one had always thought was a fairly facile episode, up until Feb.), we found a whole bunch of interesting things that we hadn't realised were there? We couldn't have spun the discussion out for four weeks without there being something to discuss. And how just now, a seeming characterisation gap in TWB/Space Fall turned out not to be one? And the same with Aftermath-- whether or not you agree with me that there's something dodgy about Hal, several people on this thread have been talking in terms of references to Shakespeare, to the ambiguity about Lauren, etc. My point is, Nation wrote stories which look simple, because he was of the opinion that simple sells (and he was right, perhaps unfortunately). But at least three of his stories do seem to provide material to talk about, and maybe the same can be said of at least some of the others too... And like I said, just cos something's hack writing doesn't mean it isn't complex :). Terry Nation: hack, yes. Stupid or sloppy, no. Fiona The Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane Hack writing at its finest at http://nyder.r67.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

1 0

re: Perceptions
by Alison Page 03 Apr '01

03 Apr '01

Me, Tavia >> a quite simple piece of B7 fanfic can challenge >> axioms to do with the separation of producer >> and consumer, or the location of the 'frame' that separates >> reading a text from responding to it, and soon. >While all this is true, indeed self-evident, surely it applies to *all* fanfic, independent of any other criteria. Yes. Ok, I'm getting into this, so bear with me. What if the very simplicity or indeed amateurishness of a piece of fanfiction (its cheekiness if you like) is part of its message. That's pretty challenging and interesting in itself. But only (I would say) if it is cheeky *and* very enjoyable. The same as punk rock, or any other raw human art form, only works if it is good fun, or very clever, or something like that. If it is just a bloody noise that you would rather not listen to, it is more likely to repel people, make them prefer commercial products. I think in that respect fanfic is more successful than punk, because it is more consistently enjoyed, and has avoided selling out. Punk tended to go one way or the other. Alison ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com **********************************************************************

1 0

Re: [B7L] leaving the lyst (Sorry to see you go Shane)
by Rita d' Orac 03 Apr '01

03 Apr '01

Cheryl _ <avonsgirl(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote: <snip> > I didn't always agree with what Shane said and how he > sometimes expressed himself but these moments were in > the minority, for the main, what he said made alot of > sense and this farewell post of his is no exception > (to my mind) I for one will be sorry to see him go and > I am deeply sorry to have read that Kathryn has left > as well...pity. <more snip> On the whole I'd have to agree with you Cheryl. I did not always like the tone of some of Shane's posts and I felt that his continually getting at Annie/Leah or any other individuals on the list was both pointless and unhelpful in building up a case to support his viewpoint on slash. We all understood the issues he raised regarding their viewpoints and we read their replies and are quite capable of making up our own minds without those issues being reiterated again and again. Having said all that, I am glad that Shane persisted in keeping the slash debate going in the face of a lot of opposition, because the issue *is* on topic and has enough impact on Blake's 7 fandom to merit lengthy discussion by any fans who are interested in discussing it. I had thought that the Lysator list was an appropriate forum for this type of discussion (I'm sure Calle will tell me if this is not the case...). I do appreciate that there are people on this list who don't want to read or reply to posts on this topic, but as with all other posts that are on topic but don't interest them, they should just ignore the posts relating to this topic. I hope Shane reconsiders and comes back to the list, along with all the others who un-subbed recently. Phew! that all came out a bit heavier than I intended it to be...back to penguins now I think... ===== rita d'orac "If you think of this mouse as a space captain..." http://www.vilaworld.com ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

1 0

RE: [B7L] speeding (was surveillance cameras )
by Louise Rutter 03 Apr '01

03 Apr '01

Jacqueline wrote: >When they were arguing about the maximum >speed in Holland, one of the reasons for not raising the speed limit was >that because of air friction really starting to matter around that speed, a >car going faster than, say, 100 kph is going to produce a *lot* more carbon >monoxide and other fun gases. The environmental argument is the one with real merit - unfortunately, to be logical about it, all forms of motorsport should obviously be banned. Hey, at least the subject got discussed in Holland. I suspect any attempt to even open that debate in this country would be howled down. SInce I can't tie this in to B7 at all, I'd suggest it move to the spin list if anyone has further comments. Louise

1 0

Re: [B7L] Nonfic on the Lyst
by Tavia 03 Apr '01

03 Apr '01

Cheryl wrote: >This is what is happening on a board that I belong to, >we discuss a new episode every week ... it is great, >I think something like this would be great for here :-) Hmm... let's get this straight... One episode a week for Lysator, one episode a month for FC, three pieces of fanfic half-promised to one person or another (all stuck solid), an essay promised but unstarted, three zines unread by my bedside, one LOC sadly overdue, a zine review promised, a zine print-run to do, another zine to edit... and ... ... Wasn't there some work I was supposed to be doing?..... Tavia (and some people manage multiple fandoms? and sex too? perhaps they don't need sleep...)

2 1

Re: [B7L] Re: Interpretation (fading into Canon, again)
by Mac4781＠aol.com 03 Apr '01

03 Apr '01

Andrew wrote: > Better go, I can hear the TN pounding on the door.... Fortunately for you, Andrew, you have a few credits with the Tarrant Nostra Accounting Department in appreciation of your gorgeous Tarrant art in Chronicles 64. But we will be keeping an eye on you, and on your zine credit pages. The "Del 'some say I'm illiterate, but it's untrue' Tarrant" did not slip by our notice. Carol Mc, Supreme Godmother of the Tarrant Nostra

1 0

Re: [B7L] Terry Nation as Writer
by Tavia 03 Apr '01

03 Apr '01

Re Fiona's interesting post. One could postulate other reasons for the set-up in 'Aftermath'. The episode is obviously intended to introduce Dayna. Reading 'The Inside Story' it's apparent that Josette Simon was hired primarily for her skin colour, youth, looks, and lack of ethnic or American accent. The account there mentions only David Moloney and Vere Lorimer in this context, but it's hard to see that they would have made casting decisions impacting so obviously on character without overt back-up from Terry Nation, who owned the concept and continued to write three key 3rd season episodes. On a 'give the gal a USP' principle, this blank young slate acquires the weapons tech background. From there on in, one can see the episode 'Aftermath' developing ... sexually naive young gal (the kiss in the cave), weapons tech background (all the Hal Mellanby stuff to which Fiona refers), oh dear we've lost Jenna, so we need a blonde bimbette replacement (Lauren). Hack writing at its worst (best?). I'm not saying this is what happened, but I think it's a plausible alternative scenario. Considering the 9 Chris Boucher episodes *as a whole*, a high proportion of them have the plot complexity, the political machinations &c that Fiona characterises as his style, though there are exceptions (Rescue, City). Considering the 19 Terry Nation episodes *as a whole*, a high proportion of them appear to be basically hack adventure writing with any complexities sufficiently well hidden as to escape this viewer entirely. Tavia

1 0

Re: [B7L] re: Perception
by Tavia 03 Apr '01

03 Apr '01

Alison wrote: >For example the 'frame' in rock music in 1976 may have >included such axioms as - artistic virtuosity is a good in itself, >production values enhance the emotional impact of music, >there is a big gap between the role of fan and the role of >musician, etc. and then a very simple song like (say) 'white riot' >can challenge those axioms. Thanks for the very clear explanation, Alison. (Recalling several years of being involved with an amateur band that produced cover versions of various early Dire Straits songs which, to my mind, were better than the originals, perhaps that's not the only way of challenging the gap between fan and musician...) >Similarly a quite simple piece of B7 fanfic can challenge >(could challenge) axioms to do with the separation of producer >and consumer, or the location of the 'frame' that separates >reading a text from responding to it, and soon. While all this is true, indeed self-evident, surely it applies to *all* fanfic, independent of any other criteria. Tavia

1 0

re: Perception
by Alison Page 03 Apr '01

03 Apr '01

Tavia said - >>In my experience of fanfic -- limited I know -- I'd say that there was a strong positive correlation between complexity of the text and seriousness of the questions addressed.<< I know what you mean, but perhaps sometimes a very simple text - or indeed song - can raise very complex questions. If, for example, it 'steps outside the frame' (to coin the phrase everyone seems to be using at present). For example the 'frame' in rock music in 1976 may have included such axioms as - artistic virtuosity is a good in itself, production values enhance the emotional impact of music, there is a big gap between the role of fan and the role of musician, etc. and then a very simple song like (say) 'white riot' can challenge those axioms. Similarly a quite simple piece of B7 fanfic can challenge (could challenge) axioms to do with the separation of producer and consumer, or the location of the 'frame' that separates reading a text from responding to it, and so on. That's how I interpret Neils's and others' comments on the punk and fanfiction comparison, anyway Alison ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com **********************************************************************

1 0

Re: Interpretation (fading into Canon, again)
by Andrew Williams 03 Apr '01

03 Apr '01

Neil wrote: >Why pick on DotG? <snip> >And a load of tripe about bald dwarfs. That's not tripe, that's a Clue [TM]! Tarrant is actually a bald dwarf with no teeth, but no one notices because he wears a sopron medallion under his space-skivvies. Better go, I can hear the TN pounding on the door....

1 0

← Newer
1
...
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
...
30
Older →

Jump to page:

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

Blakes7 April 2001