Blakes7 April 2001

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70 participants
295 discussions

Re: [B7L] free lunches and offlist posting
by Neil Faulkner 02 Apr '01

02 Apr '01

From: Deborah Day <d.day(a)thefreeinternet.co.uk> > I think a perhaps little confusion has arisen between tanj (from Ringworld > etc) and tanstaafl as they are a little similar. There ain't no justice. Yes, as I pointed out a couple of days ago in reply to Sandra. You won't have seen Sandra's post, as it wasn't sent to the Lyst. It's a moot point whether it was my fault for not checking who that particular email was addressed to, or hers for not removing the [B7L] from the subject header, but I assumed it was a Lyst post and replied accordingly. Fortunately this led to nothing more than me making a public admission of my own ignorance, but I can imagine circumstances in which something altogether more embarrassing might have leaked. I know a lot of offlist discussion goes on between certain Lysters, including a fair amount of backbiting in the current climate, so perhaps those who care to indulge in that sort of thing might like to make sure that their offlist posts are clearly marked as such. Or maybe not, as I wouldn't mind something juicy plopping into my inbox:) Neil (I suppose it's only fitting that this public statement about private posting should have accidentally first been sent privately to Deborah, subject header and all.)

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Re: [B7L] leaving the lyst
by Shane Little 02 Apr '01

02 Apr '01

Calle wrote: >Shane Little writes: > > > > I don't know about emma, but it appears that the reason why Kathryn > > > left was because of Annie and Leah's totally unprovoked and quite > > > shocking attack on her Christian beliefs. > > >Don't put words in her mouth. Kathryn had been on this list since the > >beginning, and she's taken far worse attacks on her beliefs than that. > >This is what she actually wrote: > > > ># Now it isn't bullies driving me away, but simply the general > ># snarkiness of far too many people, for far too long. > > > >(Entire post is in > >http://tezcatlipoca.algonet.se/cgi-bin/getbyid.pl?id=45974 if you want > >to check for yourself) I believe you. > >That "general snarkiness" most definitely includes you, Shane. Could > >you *please* drop this debate now, before you manage to empty the list > >completely? Well done, Calle. I'm leaving this lyst. You will never hear from me again. Some of you will be pleased. Some of you will say, "thank God he's gone. Things will be so much better now." Others may think, "That's a pity. A lot of what he said was true. I wish I had stood up and said something. Oh well, too late now I suppose." It is too late. People on this lyst have failed to stand up for too long. And now the battle is over and they've lost.We've all lost. And that is why I am leaving Blake's 7 fandom. We've lost because we have allowed B7 to be hijacked, and turned into a homogenised hamburger. We have lost because certain very selfish people have no respect for the actors involved, who have supported fandom for over twenty years. These people are being grossly exploited, and none of you care. We have all lost because we have allowed Annie and Leah, two very powerful fans, to bully us into submission. We know what they are like, but we have failed to stand up to them. And the result? People on this lyst don't talk about B7 anymore, they talk about themselves. They talk about sex. B7 fans have talked about sex for so long now they have mapped it back onto the series. Sex was always a small part of B7. Not any more. All you now see is sex. And a twisted version of sex at that. It's a homophobic kind of sex. It's a kind that demeans gays. And it's only function is to titillate straight women. Women who think that Meegat is a good role model for them to follow. People who have read so much porn that they can now only see relationships in terms of domination and submission. Slash has become B7, and B7 has been distorted out of shape to make it fit this totally alien interpretation. Everything has its place. Even slash. But B7 fandom has gone the same way as some other fandoms. It has become a show about slash. B7 had a lot of interesting things to say. Not any more. Whatever B7 had to say has been submerged beneath a tide of puerile sexual fantasy. I am a recent member to this lyst. When I joined I was very disturbed by what I saw. Perhaps people who have been here a long time don't see it anymore, or are trying to ignore what's going on here, because they want to keep the peace. What I saw made me very sad indeed. Yesterday I read a post about a newbe fan who was sat down in front of the TV and told what they should be seeing. That is appalling. That image demeans all of us. B7 fandom has become the Federation. No, worse than that, it has become George Orwell's 1984. A story about the distortion of reality. Those who control the present, control the past, and so also control the future. During the humiliation and brainwashing of Winston Smith, O'Brian holds up three fingers and tells him he is holding up four. He tells him that the people Winston though existed didn't exist at all, in fact had never existed. He is told that if O'Brian so wished, he could defy gravity and float above the ground. The reason he doesn't? Because he chooses not to! In the end Winston Smith is destroyed. He believes everything O'Brian tells him. He has learned to "love" him and the state he represents. In these last few weeks I have seen reality turned on its head. "If I perceive something to be true, it must be true." Sorry, you are wrong. It just means you're self-deluded, or worse, just plain mad. What happens if you challenge this mindset? People sulk, they stamp their feet, they run away, they twist your words. They say, "the characters weren't very realistic anyway," they say, "the programme was silly" they say, "the acting was bad", they say, "it looked cheap." They attack the programme they profess to love, to justify an interpretation which at best is totally without merit, and at worst is totally perverted and demeaning, to the show, to the actors, to the writers, to yourselves. I don't care how powerful somebody is, or how much they've allegedly done for fandom, or how many of their zines you've bought. If they're hurting actors and belittling the beliefs and sexual identities of fellow fans, not to mention the programme itself, then their behaviour is totally unacceptable, and no amount of cons organised can change that. On Ashton Press' welcoming page, there is a picture of two idealised, well-fed wolves. I wonder what poor old Wendy would have made of that... Calle, you are welcome to your lyst. If I were you, I'd press a few buttons and wipe the whole rotten thing out. Shane "The mad and the very powerful have one thing in common. They twist the facts to fit the theory. That's all very well, until you become one of those facts." -- The Doctor Who needs Cupid? Matchmaker.com is the place to meet somebody. FREE Two-week Trial Membership at http://www.matchmaker.com/home?rs=200015

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re: food snobbery ?
by Roger the Shrubber 02 Apr '01

02 Apr '01

Re Trial - Jacqui wrote - And in one conclave to elect a Pope the only two cardinals who did not succumb to food poisoning had brought their own cooks - one preferred the food of his own country and I forget the other's reason. Would this apply here? ********************* I don't recall them mentioning food poisoning, it could have been as simple as preferring a higher standard of food than Space Command was likely to provide, even for VIP's. <imagines Sir Humphrey eating at McDonalds...> I think in this ep, considering Servalan was almost beside herself trying to keep things above board, that murdering 2 weak-kneed political opponents at this time might have been too unsubtle even for her. darren r Ebook - "How To Start Your Own Internet Bookshop" For info, send blank email to bookshop(a)fastfacts.net ------------------------------------------------------------- Opportunity Knocks Bookshop http://www.abebooks.com/home/POWERPLAY/

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Re: [B7L] Re: Ethics and Hal Mellanby
by Marian de Haan 02 Apr '01

02 Apr '01

Harriet Monkhouse wrote: >It's possible that Mellanby had some contact with the Sarrans when he arrived, and that relations broke down later. This could be any reason from "Mellanby is horrified to find that they kill unwanted baby girls, so rescues one and then withdraws into his ship" to "Mellanby kidnaps a baby girl to provide a companion for his daughter, and is forced to withdraw before the Sarrans can take revenge". Or something completely unrelated to baby girls.< Like Dayna starting to use the Sarrans for target practising. Marian

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Re: [B7L] Fanfic: Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane
by Jenny Kaye 02 Apr '01

02 Apr '01

Stephen wrote: >--- Fiona Moore <nydersdyner(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > > > > > THE POSTHUMOUS MEMOIRS OF SECRETARY RONTANE 8.5: HOW > > I LEARNED TO STOP > > WORRYING AND LOVE THE LYST > ><snipped to avoid repetition> > >Ah, the voice of sanity ! > >Stephen. Yes, lol! More of same, Fiona, please! Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Ethics and Hal Mellanby
by Dana Shilling 02 Apr '01

02 Apr '01

Hmmm---there are plenty of "Tempest" echoes in Aftermath anyway--Lauren as Caliban ("This island's mine"?) -(Y) "You have taught me language, and the profit on't is, I know how to curse"

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Re: [B7L] Re: Ethics and Hal Mellanby
by Jenny Kaye 02 Apr '01

02 Apr '01

Mistral wrote: > > > > >and if he was that tender-hearted and they did expose their superfluous > > >girls, why didn't Dayna have *lots* of little adopted sisters?< > > > > > >Possibly Lauren was the only abandoned girl in that whole generation. :-) > > > > Maybe one of the people who knows more about social sciences than I do could > > say something, but it sounds a bit weird to me to just abandon one girl in > > twenty years? > >Perhaps Lauren was orphaned and subsequently abandoned because none of >her own people wanted the responsibility of taking care of her (another >mouth to feed on limited resources, etc.) There's no reason to think >that there would be lots of Sarran girls who'd lost their entire >families. It still seems odd to me. IIRC neither of the Mellanbys seem too interested in how the Sarrans live, and if Lauren is close to Dayna's age she'd have to have been adopted soon after they got there, which doesn't give them much time to find out. It doesn't seem likely that he'd have been going for long rambles in the hills near the Sarran villages :-). Actually, that's also strange. They land on the planet, sink a spaceship into the ocean, and they spend a lot of their time zapping the Sarrans to keep them away-- and then they suddenly pick up this baby girl, we don't know where from but she's close to Dayna's age. It does sound more than a little bit colonial to me. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Nonfic on the Lyst
by Marian de Haan 02 Apr '01

02 Apr '01

Fiona suggested: >Say every month we pick a B7 episode, and people who feel like talking about it, do.< I'd like that. For one thing, it won't leave anyone out because we've all seen the episodes (or can go and look up the transcripts). And it would be very interesting in the light of the recent discussion about how every fan has his/her own interpretation. I love to read episode reviews precisely for that reason and wish there were more of them available. Marian

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anti-deps
by Roger the Shrubber 02 Apr '01

02 Apr '01

Ross wrote . I remember we had a whip around a while back, and it seems that enough b7fen had taken antidepressants to start their own list. Welcome back to Lyst and Life Jacqueline! ********** Ah yes, that would be the Pylene-50 list. Never very exciting but a moderator's dream. :-) darren r Ebook - "How To Start Your Own Internet Bookshop" For info, send blank email to bookshop(a)fastfacts.net ------------------------------------------------------------- Opportunity Knocks Bookshop http://www.abebooks.com/home/POWERPLAY/

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FW: Review of "ttba"
by Tavia 02 Apr '01

02 Apr '01

Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 17:10:47 -0600 From: Penny Dreadful <pennydreadful(a)powersurfr.com> Subject: FC: Review of "ttba" Tavia, you can forward this to the Lyst if you think it would do more good than harm (assuming you're subscribed). [[& you think I'd pass up an opportunity like that? -- Tavia]] - ---------------- Review of "ttba" - ---------------- What with Tavia having gone and said such nice things about my stories in FS3 (small unmarked remuneration will be left in a duffel bag behind the usual dumpster at the usual time), I now feel obliged to at least try my hand at reviewing "ttba". I've never reviewed a Zine before and have only ever actually seen three examples of the species including this one, so I hope this comes out all right. 1. Presentation I like the plastic front and back. Makes a nice noise when I tap my fingernails on it. Repels coffee, baba ganouji, and much much more. I also like the binding, no idea what it's called--the kind that allows one to fold the book backwards so the front and back meet. Handy because--no offense intended, seriously!--if one is reading it in a public place it allows one to maintain the pretense that one is reading something Important and possibly even Educational. Note I am not advocating outright deceit--the one time I was confronted I freely admitted to what I was reading: Ruthless Interrogator: So whatcha readin'? Me [mutters]: fnzn. R.I.: Come again? Me: i sd FNZN! R.I.: I'm sorry, I didn't quite catch-- Me: I'm reading a fanzine, all right? An unauthorized non-profit amateur anthology of fiction based on a long-defunct television show AND IT'S GOT DIRTY BITS TOO! ARE YOU HAPPY NOW? Hey, where ya goin'? Come back here, you coward! [hurls "ttba" at the retreating figure, but it stays nice and clean thanks to the lovely plastic front and back] But I digress. 2. Art Well, there's mine, upon which I won't comment except to say the excellent quality of the reproduction captures my obsessive-compulsive cross-hatchings in admirable detail. And there's Firerose's, which are those neat kind of tracings or something...is there a name for that technique? Lots of pretty pictures! I like that in my grown-up literature... Front cover probably best left to be commented on by someone with a proper appreciation for Val Westall's work, which I know is immensely popular and acclaimed, lack of taste on my part rather than lack of talent on hers. 3. Literary Content I can't speak for anyone else but I know my story improved greatly through being actively "edited" by Tavia (as by Judith in her Zines). Other than that I can't comment on my own literary contribution--tastes like truffles or tripe depending on my mood. I've had some positive feedback, though. So, aside from that... I read every story, which says more about the quality of them than you might think, as I am not a "voracious" (or as I prefer to put it, "indiscriminate" ;-p) reader of fiction. So if I don't mention it by name that doesn't mean I think it sucks. If an author wonders e can ask me and I will comment, although I can't promise anything more insightful than the following: I think the editor made a very good choice in strategically distributing Belatrix Carter's brilliant "Seven Deadly Virtues" throughout the Zine. "Awake and Find No" by Ika is really good, awesomely well-written in my opinion. I find much of Executrix's fiction intimidating--her prose is perfect and prolific and leaves me feeling utterly illiterate culturally and otherwise--in light of which she might not consider it much of a compliment when I say that I greatly enjoyed her "Not Our Kind, Darling". But even Shakespeare throws a bone to the proles on occasion, n'est-ce pas? To mix a metaphor... "Privilege" by Susan Cutter, which appeared on the Space City list I think, is still excellent and still makes me think of Bukowski. But only in the most positive possible way. If you know what I mean. "Ash Wednesday" by Firerose highlights for me one of the advantages of paper over electronic media in certain circumstances. At 32 pages it's not really that long in the universal scheme of things, and kept me reading with interest all the way through, whereas in its original electronic incarnation I found its length unwieldy and I think I skimmed a lot, which naturally left me feeling confused. Very good long-short story. "Inga" by Judith Proctor and "The Sleep of the Dead" by Hades are both very original and insightful I think. 4. In Conclusion... I think "ttba" is extremely good value for the price it's being offered at, and I would love to see it sell well and thus encourage more of its kind. I like the fact that the "Descriptive Contents" page gives violence as well as sex warnings. If it were up to me I think I would distinguish between explicit and nonconsensual sex...but then I probably would not distinguish between heterosexual and homosexual...but of course it's NOT up to me so I'll shut up now. Thank you, Tavia, for your effort in producing "ttba". I really think it was worthwhile, and hope the experiment succeeds! - --Penny

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Blakes7 April 2001