Blakes7 April 2001

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70 participants
295 discussions

Captain Vila (part 1)
by Sally Manton 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

This is getting rather long, so I've broken it into parts (aren't you all *thrilled* I'm back? Don't answer that). Mistral wrote: <Actually, you're making an assumption that Vila was trying to distract Avon, and so your question is inherently biased.I don't agree with that assumption; I simply think he was breaking off a tangential discussion that was going away from what he really wanted to talk about,> and Jenny: <How can you possibly say that you know what he "really" wanted to talk about? All you can go by is what's on the screen.> But with all due respect - and I'm really not trying to offend - how can *you* insist he wants to distract Avon? That's not on the screen either. Sauce for the goose and all that ... And distract Avon from *what*? You have said that a couple of times, and I don't see it comes from. What actually happens on screen - at least as far as I can see - is that Avon and Cally are having a who-can-be-more-cryptic conversation, Vila, not unreasonably, asks what they're talking about and Avon (who appears not to want to answer that one) comes back with one of his standard put-downs. And Vila - who for two years has let said put-downs slide by - decides this time to take Avon up on it (the question of why *now* is interesting, see part 3 for ruminations on this point). *Vila* is the one being distracted, not Avon. And the "never mind about me" is also quite reasonable IMO - he's just realised he *has* been distracted from the main thing, the fact that trouble's brewing ("I've been worried all along") and is backtracking to it. <Vila tends to acquire an air of faux innocence when he's lying.> <No. Only when cornered.> Please, a few IMOs wouldn't go astray here (from me as well, to be fair). I agree with Mistral, actually. <The specific reference to Space Captains was IMO likely an exaggeration, due to having issues with upper grades generally and (as Sally mentioned) Tarrant specifically.> <I'm with you on that, but if he's lying here, why believe anything else he says in the rest of the scene? > Why not? If he's exaggerating, there may be a kernel of truth. Everyone lies sometimes - that doesn't mean they do with every breath they take. <My thought is that he could certainly have tested into a slightly higher grade,> <I think that's right as well,> Then what are we arguing about? After all, he if *did* test higher, then there needs to be an explanation of why he isn't *in* a higher grade. <I don't know, a cushy office job is a damn sight safer than being a thief. > "A thief isn't what I am, it's WHO I am." (City) <It's not an assumption. The info is there in the scene. Vila is lying.> No, that is your assumption, and (as I see it) based on at least one fallacy (that he wants to distract Avon, which makes no sense). The straight statement 'he was lying' may have the advantage of simplicity, but *for me* have the rather massive disadvantage of *not* fitting the information both in the scene and in other episodes (in particular but not only Weapon). So *it* is not logical, and I need to hunt around for another one. (Though I'm not saying for one minute that you need to, if it suits you the way it is.) BTW - has anyone any ideas *on* what Avon and Cally's little conversation meant? Why didn't Avon mention the signal from the ground? And while we're at it, why send the crew babies on this one? Either he or Cally would be a better choice - they were part of the legendary rebel team - surely a plus for anti-Federation negotiations - and they would at least recognise Blake if they fell over him (unlike Tarrant, who never got up the curiosity to look up a picture of the man who ran the ship for two years and whose name still influences them, or even to look up some old log files ...) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Gold fish
by Nathan Hook 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

as an occassional poster to this list who has been quiet lately, I'll resubmit my hello's from another part of the country. Formally in Wellington, now I'm in Te Kuiti. For those outside of New Zealand, this is pronounced...Tea Koo-it-tea. Say it reasonably quickly even the first tea and you've got it. this is why I've been silent...the life of a school teacher...planing. And yes, I will use B7 episodes on students. excellent to use for character studies on conflcit themes and things. Kids love sci-fi, although, the special effects of the sci-fi in B7 make for interesting reactions. Now, gold fish who're spawning mini blake's and servalan's. this is a worry. I wonder, perhaps a thrashed plot though. Avon and Servalan children. Twins! One with the best of the characteristics...I won't explain that, you can be free to interpret that as you will, and the other with the worst. You could have male and femle twins or same sex either sex. Either way, tons of conflict. A situation comedy. arguments. servalan sending child to the best meglomaniac and basic brutality finishing schools, Avon trying to put forth the computer systems engineering side of things. Horror. evil twin tries to kill other not so evil twin and father after careful sculpting from evil mother. or...the other way round. 'You know what they say, no good deed goes unpunished.' three things to change on B7. hmmmm. Bring back blake...the avon Blake conflict. who's in charge? how does Blake handle Tarrant? expand glynis barber's role...remove dayna and the absurd action amazon woman with exploding devices on my person for every situation bit. nathan. Nothings so difficult as a beginning/ In poesy, unless perhaps the end. Byron. ------------------------------------------------------------ Free, BeOS-friendly email accounts: http://BeMail.org/ Free Peepshow - http://twinfusion.com/comic/peep/

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How do people watch B7?
by Ann Basart 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

(And Calle -- please tell me if my HTML problem has finally been fixed. Marian de Haan kindly gave me suggestions.) Hi all. I've been wondering how people on the Lyst watch B7. All the episodes (except those that you don't like) in order? Whichever single ep you feel like? Whatever ep is suggested by comments on the Lyst? And how often? I seem to go through the entire thing (except Animals & some others) every year or so. Yes, I know this is a trivial question; but the Lyst is quiet now and I'm curious. --Ann

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How do people watch B7?
by Sally Manton 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

Feste wrote <(Hi. New to the list. And I tend to lurk a lot.)> Welcome! <"Animals," though, is fun to talk back to.> Ah, but have you tried turning the sound off completely and making up new dialogue as it goes along? Even when you make up total nonsense, it tends to improve matters quite a lot, I find ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: If you could change ...
by Marian de Haan 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

Mistral wrote: >3) Animals - Replace it with a Jarriere-centric episode. < Or cast Harry Jones in the role of Justin :-) Marian

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Re: [B7L] How do people watch B7?
by Sally Manton 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

Una wrote: <LOL! - yet even I would suggest that if you're going to watch 'Animals', then don't skip 'The Way Back'! Actually, I would like to propose that 'The Way Back' is a strong contender for one of Jenna's *and* Vila's best episodes - they may not be in them as much as in later ones, but the characterisation (which was softened up later) is terrific - Vila sly and fluid and just a *tad* disturbing (an interesting point is whether or not he's telling the truth *here* about his mind 'adjustments' or is saying it to unsettle Blake), Jenna cool and hard and confidently moving in on Blake as she does. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Captain Vila (part three)
by Sally Manton 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

As promised <veg> I mentioned above: <Vila - who for two years has let said put-downs slide by - decides this time to take Avon up on it ...> This is an interesting point, which I think sheds some light on the rather neglected Vila-Blake relationship. All IMHO, folks ... Vila is *not* an empty boaster, at least not in series 1-2. Yes, he has a high opinion of his own worth as a thief/lockpick ("There isn't a lock I can't open - if I'm scared enough.") but we have to be fair - if he thinks he can't do it, he says so (Spacefall and Bounty being cases in point, with the added punch that in Bounty he says he can't then, when pushed, finds out he *can*.) He is self-deprecating in his humour, unabashed about his dubious profession (TWB, Shadow etc) and apparently lowly social grading (Shadow), and quite happy to let Avon's slurs on his intelligence (Horizon) and Blake's impatience with his questions (Star One - "You don't have to explain it to me, I only came for the ride.") slide straight by. So why does he suddenly find it important to defend himself on the issue? Why does it matter *now*? My theory is that it has to do with Blake's disappearance (remember, in the very scene we're discussing, it's Vila who brings up the matter of checking out those rumours that Blake was seen here). During Blake's command, Vila was *secure* in his place on the Liberator. Blake could be brusque and impatient at times (and at least once - the end of Trial - both he and Avon were dowright unkind, though whether Vila picked up on it is a moot point). But Blake also had a clear purpose in life, fighting the Federation; Vila's skills were invaluable to that purpose, he knew it, and Blake made sure that Vila knew *he* knew it, by actual thanks and the off word of praise when Vila was in earshot (something no one else did). Whether or not Avon or anyone else thought he was a fifth-grade ignorant didn't matter so much, because he was of use, he had his place, Blake needed him. But now Blake's gone, and the Liberator's purpose is very much murkier, along with what use Vila is to the crew. So he [a] is naturally quite positive about the idea of getting Blake back, and [b] feeling rather less secure (possibly subconsciously) about his place, whether or not the others will find him reduundant ("one spare part up here", as Avon put it). It *does* appear to be tied up with Tarrant - a substitute Blake? - in his mind, but also shows a lack of faith in Avon's and Cally's view of him - hence, the defensiveness (this all foreshadows City, of course, where he brings up Blake's name again in the bullying scene with Tarrant, and shows that he has little faith that Avon and Cally *would* defend him against Tarrant). All speculation, of course, and no proof that what Vila said in Volcano is or isn't true, but maybe a clue as to why - after two years of cheerfully denigrating his background, and letting Avon do it - he suddenly speaks up. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Captain Vila (part two)
by Sally Manton 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

Now, the matter of Weapon, Coser and the Beta rank. Jenny wrote: <I think what we are actually seeing is the Beta Grade from the perspective of Coser, who is quite clearly vengeful, and not just a little bit mad.> Absolutely, but the episode makes it clear *to me* that he has grounds for seeing it that way. Firstly, the point that Travis and Servalan make, that his taking Security by surprise shows he "is brighter than his grade classification would suggest". Given what we see of Federation security, this does not speak highly of the grade classification in question *at all*. The clear implication is that Betas are not regarded (at least by people like Servalan and Travis) as incapable of original thought, which bolsters Coser's belief that his invention - his original work - could be stolen from him. (And given that our own Vila is perfectly capable of taking Security (SLD), Fearless Leader and everyone else in sight - including himself - by surprise, it's rather telling.) And then there's Blake who, in my biased opinion, is unusually egalitarian (his method is to treat everyone as social equals, while ordering them *all* about) but says quite bluntly "Coser's only a Beta class weapons technician, so he's not important enough to have caused all this fuss." i e, Betas are seen as rather lowly. Regarding your: <Yes, but until he had actually experienced such a thing, how could he know what it was all about?> He hasn't been an Alpha either, but he's got a fair grasp of what it means as far as Blake's concerned ('Shadow'). It wouldn't be that hard to work out where he would be most comfortable and could pursue his chosen profession (thief) most easily - he can be perceptive when he wants, and if it's to do with getting what *he* wants out of life, he will want. <Also, any prejudice from Alpha grades for Betas must be lightweight compared to the prejudice he would feel as a Delta.> Who said he'd be concerned about prejudice? Vila doesn't actually show much concern about what the others think about his ranking or him personally *until* this scene; he's perfectly happy to let them think what they like if it gets him what he wants (after all, he has a low opinion of most of them too). The reason he gives for *wanting* a Delta grade actually rings true in one respect - it has nothing to do with outside bias or prejudices or how others would treat him, but a solid, practical basis on what he thinks would make his life more or less unpleasant: going into the military being (I-his-O) anything but desirable for this. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Horizon , new issue
by Jenny Kaye 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

Emily writes: >I did skim though to see if anyone had commented on the recent > >new horizon magazine which for UK members i would guess arrived > >a few weeks ago, (well mine did anyway) and there didn't seem to > >have been any discussion at all, maybe a lot of lyst members are > >not members of horizon any more? I don't know. I didn't see any names I recognized from the Lyst in it. But then I'm not a member either-- I borrowed it from a friend who is. > >I have been in recent years been a staunch critic of Horizon and > >the people that run it and i do not wish to drag it all back up again > >but i was pleased to read that at long last the videos from > >Deliverance 1998 are now available, well the first one is , Well, actually they still haven't been duplicated yet, apparently. > >onto the subject of the mag, it seems pretty good, the usual > >excuses about why it is so late, but what is new there !!!, When was the last one out? It must have been a long time. This is the first one I've seen in years. > >there is some good articles There are some hilarious articles, but I don't think they are meant to be hilarious :-). > >I am interested to hear what other people have to say about it ? I thought it was well designed, but what I read was turgidly written. I did like the article about fans being interviewed by Sky and the BBC though. All credit to Rob Enry for writing about how he and Diane Gies humiliated themselves for television. I LOL when I read about how they were both duped into running around a garden flashing Liberator guns at each other. How squirmingly dreadful. Actually the whole mag seemed to be more about the activities of certain fans in the past year than about B7. Since none of the fans were anyone I knew, I found it pretty skippable. > >hopefully without starting another nasty horizon debate Another one? What was that about? Lateness? > >As i have said i don't agree with the horizon committees views on > >lots of things and i sometimes feel that things should be better > >from the 'official' club I thought Judith Proctor was the 'official' club. Have I missed something :-)? but hey i guess we are not all perfect :) and a> >lot of clubs do not always manage a newsletter at all, ( i speak > >from previous disappointing experience with other fandoms!) True. My friend's already cutting it up for the pictures. So things are not all bad I suppose. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Chris Boucher
by Sally Manton 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

Judith wrote: <for those who don't know, Chris was the script editor on Blake's 7 >and also wrote many of my favourite episodes such as Rumours of Death.> and Jenny Kaye: <Thanks for that Judith, though I think it's also best to add that for those who don't know, Blake's 7 was a British science fiction drama series that ran from 1978 to 1981. Some of you might have seen it, or even possess the odd episode on video.> ?!?! I'm sorry if I'm being thick, but I'm not sure I understand this comment? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Blakes7 April 2001