Blakes7 April 2001

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70 participants
295 discussions

Re: [B7L] Captain Vila
by Sally Manton 26 Apr '01

26 Apr '01

----Original Message Follows---- From: "Jenny Kaye" <jennycat55(a)hotmail.com> To: kminne(a)camtech.net.au, blakes7(a)lists.lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Captain Vila Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 20:04:24 -0000 Walter (or Ken?) Minne says: > >Since we don't actually know how the grading testing was done, it is > >possible that the testing science had advanced so much that either Walter wrote: <It sometimes seems to me that many people on this list think that the Federation is the be all and end all of evil, corrupt governments, down to the lowliest trooper and civil worker as greedy and blood thirsty,> First part, yes I do see the Federation much that way, and corruption as pretty widespread; however (to address the second part), while I may believe corruption to be pretty widespread, obviously there are people who are not, and others who are not *knowingly* part of the corruption. However, in this case you don't need that. Just one or a few people to be venal enough, and Vila to have the contacts (like Avon and his visa seller). Some level of corruption - even if small and rigorously squashed - is a part of every society, after all. And Jenny K: <There is no need for all this elaborate theorising, when the answer is simple: Vila was a thief, and therefore, like most thieves, Vila was a liar as well.> Ah, but that's just theory as well, isn't it? <g> albeit simpler (but of course some of us prefer the complicated stuff). _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Captain Vila
by Jenny Kaye 26 Apr '01

26 Apr '01

Jacqui wrote: >Harriet Monkhouse <hflysator(a)jarriere.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > > > Jacqui wrote: > > >When Vila says he bought his 'grade four ignorant' status (and >elsewhere > > >Avon calls him a 'grade five ignorant') to avoid being made a captain - >but > > >why assume he means a military/space service captain - perhaps he was > > >trying to avoid being made a captain of a prison ship such as the >London > > > > Or a cricket captain. > > > > -- > > Harriet > > ><Given Vila's 'social class' > Isn't social rank in the Federation (Alpha, Beta etc.) exam-determined? So why would his accent be a barrier to being a space captain? And the crew of the London sounded dead posh. <he is more likely to end up being captain of the London (and who would want to have a load of bolshy revolting (probably in both senses) prisoners to look after - it would be a perfectly sensible decision to avoid going down that path.> Vila says that all the space captains got killed in the war. So what would a civilian ship like the London be doing attacking Alien battle fleets? In that scene Vila was obviously comparing himself to Tarrant. And IMO he was lying anyway, why would he have to buy a grade when all he'd have to do is fail the exams? Much more cost effective. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Captain Vila
by Jenny Kaye 26 Apr '01

26 Apr '01

Sally wrote: > >Jenny Kaye wrote: > ><If Vila *was* an Alpha Grade then he should have been bright enough to > >"fail" any test. It's not that difficult to fail an IQ test if you know > >what > >sort of answers the examiners are looking for.> > > > >If they've been running the tests for long enough (and it does appear the > >system is entrenched, from the sheer casualness with which it's mentioned > >on-screen) surely the organisers would have come up with something a bit > >more subtle than that? (OTOH, it *is* a totalitarian dictatorship, not > >normally known for their subtlety). Well the good old American government has been running IQ tests since the 1930's, and they still haven't worked out a way of avoiding racial and class bias in the grading. Why should the Federation be any better? > ><Who, or what, is a "Toothy"?> > > > >One Del Tarrant. Christened in honour of one of his most - errr - shining > >attributes, that blindingly perfect smile. Oh, I thought you ment Avon, because he had sort of buck teeth didn't he? Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Captain Vila
by Jenny Kaye 26 Apr '01

26 Apr '01

Walter (or Ken?) Minne says: > >Since we don't actually know how the grading testing was done, it is > >possible that the testing science had advanced so much that either the > >testing process itself was so reliable as to be accurate despite the > >willingness or otherwise of the subject, or that trying to > >deliberately fail the test was also taken into account. But as you say, "we don't actually know how the grading testing was done," so all of this is just speculation. > > > >It sometimes seems to me that many people on this list think that the > >Federation is the be all and end all of evil, corrupt governments, > >down to the lowliest trooper and civil worker as greedy and blood > >thirsty, Not me. However, don't underestimate the power of greed! though we do see many sympathetic Federation characters, and > >even military officers. I have speculated on the Lyst in past that for > >the Federation to survive on its own (corrupt and evil though major > >elements of it are), without collapsing in complete anarchy, a major > >portion, and possibly the majority of the whole Federation system has > >to be run under some sort of "Rule of Law". That's not speculation, just common sense. (See Cygnus Alpha and Gauda Prime for instance) > >So large portions of the Federation would operate under a kind of > >default option system of genuine standards and responsibilities, even > >if most of the time, the sufficiently rich, and the sufficiently > >powerful, could ignore them if they wanted to, though even that had > >limits. Well, this is what basically Rumours of Death states, yes. > >Hence the young Vila, faced with the choice of testing into a group > >from which the military automatically took all the candidates for > >training as Space Captains, Again, supposition. or failing the exam deliberately ( and who > >knows what the punishment for that would have been, sold as a slave to > >an outer world maybe ), How would they know that he had failed the exam deliberately, especially if he really did have the IQ of an Alpha grade? did the only thing he could do, bribed the > >tester to change his result independent of the testing process so that > >he could remain safe on Earth. Then again perhaps Vila was... lying? (surely not!) > >The other point about Vila not wanting to be a Space Captain, is that > >the Federation training for Space Captains would likely as not have > >been fatal to anyone like Vila with an enhanced perception of the > >value of his own skin and no military useful redeeming features or > >friends in high places. Either the trainers would arrange a fatal > >"accident" as an incentive to the other recruits, or the other > >recruits would themselves tear him to pieces for stuffing up a unit > >exercise one too many times. But surely any test would have taken this into account. If you are looking for a fearless commander type, then why not make that a part of the IQ test? > >Young Vila would have wanted to avoid a near fatal career path any way > >he could, and bribery was probably the only option. Look, if you bother to watch the episode you'll see that Vila's reference to 'all the Space Captains being killed' is a reference to the Galactic War. Something he could not possibly have foreseen all those years ago when he allegedly flunked the test. There is no need for all this elaborate theorising, when the answer is simple: Vila was a thief, and therefore, like most thieves, Vila was a liar as well. In fact just a few seconds later he lies about his feelings for Dayna. Vila continually lies throughout the series. Even when we first see him, Vila lies to Blake about why he has his watch. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Hello? where is everyone?
by Marian de Haan 26 Apr '01

26 Apr '01

Sally wrote: >Don't make me dig out my 'how Avon's fashion choices reflects his mental and emotional state throughout the series' argument, just for something to post < Well, I for one would love to read that. The list is rather quiet, isn't it? Have all frequent posters unsubscribed or have we run out of things to discuss or is everyone - like me - still nursing the RSI caused by February's barrage of messages? :-) Marian

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Hello? where is everyone?
by Sally Manton 26 Apr '01

26 Apr '01

Don't make me dig out my 'how Avon's fashion choices reflects his mental and emotional state throughout the series' argument, just for something to post ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Captain Vila
by Sally Manton 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Jenny Kaye wrote: <If Vila *was* an Alpha Grade then he should have been bright enough to "fail" any test. It's not that difficult to fail an IQ test if you know what sort of answers the examiners are looking for.> If they've been running the tests for long enough (and it does appear the system is entrenched, from the sheer casualness with which it's mentioned on-screen) surely the organisers would have come up with something a bit more subtle than that? (OTOH, it *is* a totalitarian dictatorship, not normally known for their subtlety). To be honest, I *don't* believe Vila was Alpha, but possibly a higher grade than Delta to start with - if it *is* exam-or-intelligence-based, which 'Weapon' also seems to indicate, he's brighter than that. But that doesn't mean it's got to be Delta, since I'm totally sure about Tarrant either (my current fanon says that there are grades within grades he's lower-grade Alpha. But YMMV, there's not much evidence on how this grade business works.) <Who, or what, is a "Toothy"?> One Del Tarrant. Christened in honour of one of his most - errr - shining attributes, that blindingly perfect smile. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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re: Paypal warning (OT)
by JEB31538＠cs.com 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Feel free to pass my warning on to other lists, groups, or people. I think it is wrong for Paypal to make it appear that it's so easy to use Paypal and then make it so hard to use it. Well, make it hard to GET the money out. The more I think about it, the more I feel what Paypal is doing isn't quite right-- and I am almost willing to bet money that Paypal will be out of business by next year. And I think when it collapses that a lot of people are going to get shafted out of whatever funds they currently have in Paypal at the time of the collapse. Paypal was just too anxious to get me to leave the money in the account and accrue interest. I wonder how many people it talks into doing that?? I just don't think it's safe to be involved with this company. If you have money in it, get it out as soon as you can. Joyce Bowen

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Re: [B7L] Paypal warning (OT)
by Ashton7＠aol.com 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

<<<<So since they will NOT give me the money, I asked them to reverse the money and return it to the sender. Sorry, they can't do that. Why? Because it's in my account.>>> Only you can return the money. If you don't have an account to sign into, you can't return it. HOWEVER, if your friend will go into THEIR account, they will see that the money is sitting there as UNCLAIMED and all they have to do is cancel the transaction. If they don't cancel the transaction, the money will revert to their account in 30 days automatically. There is no way for Paypal to transfer the money to you if you don't give them either a credit card or your bank account information. The reason they are telling you there will be a fee is that the limit of credit card payments for personal accounts to receive per month is $100.00. If your friend wants to send you the money without there being a fee, they can do so by sending you money directly from their Paypal balance OR via an Echeck (money directly from their bank account). If they are sending you the money from a credit card, then the limit applies. This is because the credit card companies are charging Paypal for every transaction of this type. In any case, it is on your friend's head since they tried to send money to someone who doesn't have a valid account set up. All they have to do is go back into their own account and cancel the transaction. The money will immediately revert to their account. Annie

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Re: [B7L] Captain Vila
by Jenny Kaye 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Sally wrote: > >Jenny wrote: > ><And IMO he was lying anyway, why would he have to buy a grade when all > >he'd > >have to do is fail the exams? Much more cost effective.> > > >Unless he *did* try to fail the exams, and failed *that* (since they were > >possibly IQ-type tests, this is quite possible). If Vila *was* an Alpha Grade then he should have been bright enough to "fail" any test. It's not that difficult to fail an IQ test if you know what sort of answers the examiners are looking for. > >This makes quite an appealing idea, actually - and one he wouldn't mention when claiming he was > >as good as Toothy Who, or what, is a "Toothy"? Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Blakes7 April 2001