Blakes7 May 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

84 participants
897 discussions

H&H: Jenna
by Susan Beth 23 May '01

23 May '01

NOTE: all quotes are from "The Complete Writer's Guide to Heroes and Heroines." I'm leaving a lot out - most of which applies, some of which doesn't. If you want the latter, well, buy the book. It's interesting. ;-) -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Overall comment on the women of the crew: as a group, they appear to be rather watered-down versions of the heroine archetypes, compared to the men who seem more full-blown. I suspect this is a result of their being sidelined and given relatively less action and fewer lines of dialog - they were thought of as supporting characters rather than as heroines and not showcased. Frequently they start out closer to the Archetype's pattern and then get weakened by being made more caring, nicer, more passive. Still, it's pretty easy to see which way they were tending. Jenna is The Seductress. "The SEDUCTRESS holds enormous power over others, hypnotizing them with her charm and desirability. She is mysterious, manipulative and bewitching." "Men feel more powerful and desirable in her company, because she deliberately sets up that illusion. She may have a specific purpose in bewitching her man, but she can turn on the charm whenever she wants, even if she is not interested in anything particular." Under virtues: "Assertive-The SEDUCTRESS has learned that to be on the offensive is to her advantage. .... She does not care about being in charge as long as she is in control of her own destiny." "Strong-This woman is a survivor. The SEDUCTRESS does whatever is necessary to get what she needs. Enduring whatever she has to, she makes full use of her powerful attractions and mental acuity. When smoke clears, she is still standing." Under flaw: "Cynical-The SEDUCTRESS is jaded. Scornful of others, she trusts only her own judgment. She is suspicious of everybody, especially men. In her experience, everyone is in it for themselves." "The SEDUCTRESS: + is independent and smart + is able to size up people quickly and accurately + is cool and calculating + is very, very savvy" Susan Beth (susanbeth33(a)mindspring.com)

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H&H: Servalan
by Susan Beth 23 May '01

23 May '01

NOTE: all quotes are from "The Complete Writer's Guide to Heroes and Heroines." I'm leaving a lot out - most of which applies, some of which doesn't. If you want the latter, well, buy the book. It's interesting. ;-) -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Servalan is The Boss. (What, you don't think Servalan is a heroine? She certainly is in * her* version of her life.) "The BOSS takes charge of her circumstances and makes things happen before most people get off the couch. She is a strong, tough woman, who gets her way no matter what the obstacles. She remains unconcerned when she ruffles feathers and steps on toes. Her goals and priorities are far more important than hurt feelings. She is outspoken, resourceful and persuasive." "Winning is everything to the BOSS. To achieve her ends, she can be calculating. She will shade the truth in order to gain her objective and she is not above manipulating circumstances to make things go her way. She sees nothing wrong with this. Whatever helps her get across the finish line is all in a good day's work." "She will mow people down on her way to her goal and beware to those who stand against her. When confronted, she can be ruthless." Under virtues: "Confident-This is a woman who always knows where she is going. She comes up with a plan, organizes what needs to be done and makes it happen. The BOSS rarely feels any twinges of doubt, so she does not waste a lot of time analyzing her position. She knows she is right, and that is the end of that." "Dynamic-The BOSS is the kind of woman who walks into a room and commands attention. Because of her self-assurance, she sparks emotions ranging from admiration to jealousy." "Competitive-This woman is so self-assured, she is positive she will always win. Anyone who challenges that position is in for a battle. The BOSS utilizes all her resources and talents to triumph, and she never stops until her opponents are defeated." Under flaws: "Blunt-The BOSS does not mince words." "Arrogant-She is always right-just ask her. The BOSS finds it hard to acknowledge that others also have ideas worth exploring. Her haughty stare and overbearing manner turn a lot of people off. But that does not matter. Life is too short to worry about what other people think." Servalan falls into the Trailblazer sub-type: "At some point in her past, she developed a burning desire to achieve and to become the best. She worked her way up the ladder of success, and, in her struggle to succeed, developed a strong confidence in herself and her abilities." "She has no time for failures. She made it, everyone else should stop whining and do the same." Among the suggested occupations: mayor, queen, president. Susan Beth (susanbeth33(a)mindspring.com)

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Re: [B7L] Re: sadness
by J MacQueen 23 May '01

23 May '01

>From: Kathryn Andersen <kat(a)foobox.net> >Well, well, well... >I said I'd check out the place in a month or so, and what do I find? The time has come, the Walrus said, to ask Calle just how laissez-faire he's feeling at the moment. Regards Joanne _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: sadness
by JEB31538＠cs.com 23 May '01

23 May '01

Emily, I agree with almost everything you said. I keep promising myself not to get involved or even read about the current problem on Lysator, but being on digest mode I still get suckered into reading a few things now and then. And after reading your post, I decided that I was being cowardly by keeping quiet. I don't like myself for that. I just want to say something and then go back into lurker mode. I am appalled at what is happening on Lysator. It makes me sick that one or more troublemakers can virtually ruin the list for two hundred or more people. It's not fair. Lysator isn't fun to read these days--it's absolutely painful. The hatred that some posts exhibit is intolerable. And name calling by anyone shouldn't be allowed. Joyce Bowen

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Re: sadness
by Kathryn Andersen 23 May '01

23 May '01

Well, well, well... I said I'd check out the place in a month or so, and what do I find? Jenny Kaye wrote: >Emily "I don't know what punctuation or a spell checker is" Darby wrote: > >I know this is very rambling but there are people who i am not sure > >if they are on or off lists now but people like > >Susan Beth, SLASHER PROGRAMMER > >Sarah Thompson, UNKNOWN > >Annie and Leah, SLASHER BASTARDS > >Judith Proctor, SLASHER > >Ellie, UNKNOWN > >Harriet, MAD SLASHER > >Kathryn Anderson, DRIVEN OUT BY MAD SLASHER BASTARDS > >Stever Rogerson, A MAD SLASHER BASTARD > >Neil A TREACHEROUS BACKSTABBING "STANDARD BY SIX" PILLOCK Who *is* this Jenny Kaye person? She's obviously mislaid her Prozac. I've read a few more of her posts, and they read like something from alt.flame! I find it terribly ironic that she says I was driven out by mad slasher bastards, because it is she herself who is driving me away now. And for the record, as I said at the time, it was *not* the slash debate per se which drove me away, but the constant squabbling about *everything*. The Lyst obviously is still deep in the grips of collective insanity. Guess I'll have to check the place out in another month or two. This has been the longest February in the history of the universe! Anyone want to volunteer to take over the Lyst Culture Guide? Someone who can put a copy of it on a web-page would be good. It would be better maintained by someone who actually has their finger on the pulse, and obviously at the moment I don't. Email me privately, I'm not going to be checking the Lyst. Oh, and thanks, Emily, for saying nice things about me. (-8 Kathryn Andersen -- _--_|\ Kathryn Andersen <kat(a)foobox.net> / \ \_.--.*/ <http://www.foobox.net> v

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Orbit
by Leia Fee 23 May '01

23 May '01

I said... >>I have trouble seeing him [Avon] as the self sacrifing kind though, even for the most >>logical of reasons. I can see him chucking her [Dayna] off and spending however >>long he had left trying to find something to make up the weight. then Susan said... >>No, no. He's *more* pragmatic than that. He'd continue tossing stuff and >>encouraging Dayna to help toss stuff until he figured that they gotten rid >>of [70 kg -Dayna's weight.] >>*Then* he would have pushed her out. You're very probably right. Remind me not to get into any heavy shuttles with you <grin> Leia

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sadness
by Emily Darby 23 May '01

23 May '01

I go away for a few days and come back to another god almighty cat fight i despair of some fans on the internet lists in recent weeks, i have been happily clicking my way though a few hundred posts on both lists and i cannot believe that a group of people who love a 20 year old british sci fi show can get so stupid and nasty to one another i love sci fi and i love Blakes 7 and have been on lysator for years and on space city and now freedom city since the beginning and yes there have been flame wars or whatever you prefer to call them and they usually come and go but in all my years on the internet i cannot remember anything quite as nasty as this my first reaction is to tell everyone to just get a life, the whole thing is just crazy, they would never be this horrible to people in real life we wonder why devoted fans get driven away from fandom, it is because of these people who seem incapable of making their point and then letting it go and accepting as you have to do in life that things don't always go your way, people don't always agree with one another on senistive issues I would not class myself as pro or anti slash, i like both , but it is not real, it is a TV show i know that might offend some people but it is supposed to be a hobby, something we all do for fun, remember that , fun ?, it is certainly not fun and hasn't been for while I sometimes wonder why i stay on the list, i don't post much now, mainly through lack of time but i remember when i first joined how friendly everyone was and there were a few members who went out of thier way to welcome me, i spent a long time in hospital and had to have a lot of time off work and spent a long time corresponding with people on and off list and it really helped me recuperate those people were geniune fans, those kinds of people who took time out to help a newbie find her feet and welcomed me into fandom most of them will not recoqnise the e-mai lthat i am posting from as it is not my orignial one and i have to admit that i am not using my real name for reasons of the dreadful horizon debate last year when Diane Gies and and several of the horizon committee and deliverance committee aired their views very publicly and i was very incensed at some of things they said about people and issues within fandom. I know this is very rambling but there are people who i am not sure if they are on or off lists now but people like Susan Beth, Sarah Thompson, Annie and Leah, Judith Proctor, Ellie, Harriet, Kathryn Anderson, Stever Rogerson, Neil and lots more who have done so much for on and off line fandom that some people would do well to remember All i feel is great sadness for the black hole that we have fallen into, i satt here for over an hour before deciding whether to post but i though what the hell, i may as well put by two penneth worth in I feel lucky to love more than one show so at least when i get fed up of my first love (B7)and Avon i can hop over and have an brief fling with B5 and Garabaldi and Buffy and Angel to satisfy my lust To al lthe genuine fans out there , thanks for being there, hang in there, the prats will soon get bored, to all the pain in the backside people, just get out, get off list and go find somewhere else to play Emily

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Re: [B7L] New frame captures
by J MacQueen 23 May '01

23 May '01

>From: Mistral <mistral(a)centurytel.net> >>Sally Manton wrote: > > Do we have another convert here? ;-) >We can but hope. How do you feel about deep-fried Tunnock's, Joanne? I've forgotten what Tunnocks are. Remind me and I'll think about it. It isn't food, is it? I don't think I could eat anything just at the moment. >Baby Orac? No, forget I said that ... it's Himself's pearly earring >that's left me dazzled and confused ... 'Tis dazzling, isn't it? Regards Joanne _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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H&H: Travis
by Susan Beth 23 May '01

23 May '01

NOTE: all quotes are from "The Complete Writer's Guide to Heroes and Heroines." I'm leaving a lot out - most of which applies, some of which doesn't. If you want the latter, well, buy the book. It's interesting. ;-) -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Travis is The Warrior. (Okay, Travis was a villain in the series, but he could have been, at first anyway, if the series had been told from the POV of the Federation.) "Dark and dangerous, justice is this man's watchword. He is remote, driven and controlled. The WARRIOR's standards of conduct are high, and heaven help those who fail to meet them. Including himself....He is the judge and the jury, and if necessary, the hangman, too." "Merciless with enemies, with friends he is loyal unto death....Once he has given his word-his commitment-he can always be counted upon to come through." "He uses whatever tools are before him to accomplish his goal-whether brute strength or quick thinking." "The WARRIOR is a man of mettle who carries a sword of justice, but that sword cuts both ways." Under virtues: "Tenacious-The WARRIOR does not give up. He is tough-minded and well-motivated. ...Failure is unthinkable." Under flaws: "Relentless-The WARRIOR finds it impossible to give up his quest. He is pitiless, harsh and cruel to his enemies and, sometimes, even to his friends. When death is imminent or others around him are being harmed, this man presses forward until the last breath leaves his body. He will not be denied." Under occupations: "FBI agent. Chasing and catching the bad guys gives this man intense gratification.....The WARRIOR is loyal, meticulous and willing to give his life for the job. He spends long hours searching for clues to a killer and derives great satisfaction when the arrest is made." -- -- -- -- -- And that's the end for the men. Interesting that we get one regular per type, and all the types but one are include. (The missing type is Lost Soul, the enigmatic wanderer without ties, nursing some dark inner secret, one of whose likely jobs is Gunfighter. Deeta Tarrant, anyone?) Tomorrow I'll tackle the women. Susan Beth (susanbeth33(a)mindspring.com)

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Re: [B7L] Trolls
by Jenny Kaye 23 May '01

23 May '01

SOCKPUPPET Leia Fee wrote: > >Oh gods the image of the stroppy element here with all that luminous waggly > >hair is going to have me in hysterics for hours! I'll phone the men in white coats then. With some of the opinions you've been coming up with of late, you need carting off. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Blakes7 May 2001