Blakes7 May 2001

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84 participants
897 discussions

Re: [B7L] Re: Space Fall
by Jenny Kaye 20 May '01

20 May '01

SLASHER Monkhouse wrote: Pakistan are all out without saving the follow-on! > > > >Sorry, er... Leylan... > > > >I see him as the embodiment of the line about "for evil to triumph, it > >is necessary only for good men to do nothing" (sorry, haven't got > >precise wording to hand), which is essential to the Federation. He is not the embodiment of the line. That is a lie. But the line itself is true. > > > >My key scene: > >LEYLAN: And the prisoners? > >DAINER: We've killed six. > >LEYLAN: Six? > >DAINER: Seven. In the course of quelling a riot and protecting the > >ship, sir. > >LEYLAN: Very well. Carry on. > >DAINER: Thank you, sir. > >RAIKER: I can get them out of there, sir. > > > >On the tape I have, Leylan looks slightly pained about the deaths (and > >Dainer appears to think he has to justify them), Leylan is putting on an act. though he goes along > >with it, accepting the justification. OF COURSE HE DOES. IT'S AN ACT. That makes sense; at least, it > >will sound OK in the report. TRUE. But Raiker is watching him carefully, > >smiles when he sees Leylan's initial reaction, and then makes his offer. TRUE. > >My conclusion is that it's Leylan's brief wince that gives him the idea; if *Leylan* is squeamish about killing prisoners, HE ISN'T SQUEAMISH ABOUT ANYTHING. HE JUST DOESN'T WANT TO TAKE DIRECT RESPONSIBILITY. how much more so > >Blake... BOLLOCKS. > >As Ellynne implies, Leylan probably knows the difference between right > >and wrong, HE DOESN'T. but he's long since lost the will, if he ever had one, to do > >anything about it. HE DOESN'T WANT TO, RAIKER IS WORKING FOR HIM. Blake, since his recapture, is bursting with the > >will to do something about it. TRUE. > >This also ties in with Steve R's remarks about most people not going out > >of their way to put themselves in danger. Leylan wouldn't exactly be in > >danger, or not immediately, if he asserted himself. HE IS ASSERTING HIMSELF THROUGH RAIKER. But it would be > >standing up to be counted, and it's pretty much engrained in Federation > >society that no one stands up to be counted. TRUE. (The Kommissar on Horizon: > >"So you're a Resister. Some malfunction of the genes, I suppose. It > >throws up a Resister about every hundred thousand.") The Federation depends on apathy far more than it does on evil. TRUE. THIS LYST IS HIGHLY DANGEROUS. PLEASE LEAVE IT. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] B7L] Re: Orbit
by Jenny Kaye 20 May '01

20 May '01

CONSCIOUS PROGRAMMER/SLASHER "Sally Manton" wrote: I actually really can't see Vila sacrificing > >himself for anyone *at all*. Not even Blake - though I can believe that he might *want* to for Blake. Vila is, first and foremost, a survivor, even > >more so IMO There we have an IMO again. "Sally Manton" uses them like confetti. > >than Avon, because there actually *isn't* anyone who Vila would > >deliberately, cold-bloodedly put ahead of himself. This is a totally illogical statement! How can Vila be a survivor, even more so than Avon, if Avon is willing to sacrifice other people to maintain his own survival. > >I see this in both Vila and Soolin, See what? AGAIN THIS MAKE NO SENSE! > >and a possible explanation in their backgrounds, similar in that both >appear to have been flung onto their own resources at a very young age (Soolin's > >family were massacred, Vila was in prison at age 14). This is a statement of fact. But it relates to nothing. > >His cowardice is IMO genuine, AGAIN NOTE THE USE OF "IMO". but only one aspect of this; where he thinks it > >won't work, he doesn't give in to it. EH? > >He does, of course, occasionally take risks for one of the others - an > >interesting aspect of his saving Tarrant in Rescue is that there is no one > >there to *tell him* him do it, in the heat of the moment he just does. THAT'S TRUE. And > >almost goes back for Cally, but then when that awful rumble starts, the > >survival instinct kicks in and he scrambles for safety (I'm not blaming > >him, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN KILLED IF HE HADN'T. > >of course, there's not a thing he could have done to save her). THAT'S TRUE. > >But to cold-bloodedly face death for someone else ..? No. What I can see is Blake deciding to airlock himself and Vila *wanting* to stop him, but not being able to pull together that amount of selflessness until it was too late. WHY WOULD BLAKE WANT TO AIRLOCK HIMSELF? > ><What would happen between Blake and Avon on the shuttle? I have no idea. LIAR. > >Neither of them would hide, so instead there would be some kind of "so this > >is it after all these years" confrontation. THEY'D WORK TOGETHER. I'm sure Blake wouldn't kill > >Avon, but I don't think Avon would kill Blake either, _in that > >circumstance_.> TRUE. > >I think Blake would try to leave, and Avon - his *protective* instinct > >kicking in Please again note the word *protective*. She doesn't tell you the context either. - would try and stop him. What happens next is anyone's guess, > >and the stuff of quite a few stories I've read ... Now, this might just be a wild guess, but the fact that this email doesn't make a great deal of sense reminds me of a certain comic strip villain. He was a evil duplicate of Superman, but the main difference between them is that is sentences were often muddled. His name was "Bizarro". Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Vila the Vegetable
by Jenny Kaye 20 May '01

20 May '01

SLASHER Carol MC wrote: > >Mistral wrote: > > > > > If the characters were vegetables, what do you think they'd be? > > > >Thanks for this thread, (SLASHER) Mistral. While I'm enjoying all of the very > >interesting threads Especially the one on brainwashing, eh? this one perfectly suited my pre-MW brain. > > > >Harriet, I loved the image of the mustache. Ooh, left luggage department. Another conditioning device. Bit desperate though isn't it? Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Look between the trees...there she is!
by Jenny Kaye 20 May '01

20 May '01

SLASHER LEAH ROSENTHAL wrote: > >Hello, Alan. Getting a bit rough is it? Off target again by the way, but I'll certainly pass on your warm regards to the relevant person. He's not an enemy you'd want to make, and he's got a lot of powerful friends. I'm just one of them. Leave his little lamb alone or I'll be back. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Curiouser and curiouser
by Jenny Kaye 20 May '01

20 May '01

Steve Rogerson wrote: > >Brought back the U > > > >Harriet said: "I never thought I'd actually *be* in a scenario where the > >villain tore off his or her moustache and cried "Now, before I torture > >you to death with my excruciating machine, let me explain the details of > >my fiendish plan!"" > > > >Tis a bit like playing the When I'm an Evil Overload game. You should know Steve. EVERYONE PLEASE LEAVE THIS LYST NOW. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Avon worship
by Jenny Kaye 20 May '01

20 May '01

SLASHER Steve Rogerson wrote: > >Dana said: "Maybe canon gives us enough information about > >Avon's character to be intriguing, but leaves enough gaps to > >launch a thousand fanfics" > > > >This i believe is key. There are so many takes on his character, mental stability and so on, that can come out of canon. BOLLOCKS. Most interpretations can be backed > >up by > >what we see, THAT IS A LIE AND STEVE KNOWS IT. which gives plenty of room for almost any fanfic > >interpretation. THAT AGAIN IS A LIE. > >The fact that loads of female fans fancied the pants off him also helps. THAT IS A PERCEPTIVE TRUTH. EVERYONE PLEASE LEAVE THIS LYST NOW. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit
by Jenny Kaye 20 May '01

20 May '01

SLASHER "Sally Manton" wrote: > > > >Ellynne wrote: > ><While I have serious doubts about Vila sacrificing himself for Avon, say > >he did. What I wonder is what it would be like for Avon if Vila _had_ . > >What would it be like for him to realize he'd been trying to murder > >someone at the same time that person had been deciding to save his life > >at the expense of their own?> > > > >Ooooo, now this I'll have to think about NOT TOO HARD THOUGH EH? (and I thought I'd seen every > >alternative to 'Orbit" going, this is definitely a new one). As a complete > >180 degree twist on what the Anna Grant story, it would be fascinating ... YOU'RE GOOD AT TWISTING AREN'T YOU BIZARRO? Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Vila
by Jenny Kaye 20 May '01

20 May '01

SLASHER Steve Rogerson: SLASHER Sally said: "His cowardice is IMO genuine, but only one aspect of this; where he thinks it won't work, he doesn't give in to it." Please notice the return of the "IMO". Out of over twenty emails I found in my box today, all of them did not possess "IMO's" but now subtly, one has come back. > >This is an interesting aspect of Vila and far more like your average > >person. Most people's reactions to some of the situations they got > >themselves in would have been like Vila's reaction, that is not > >going out of their way to put themselves in unnecessary danger. This > >isn't cowardice, it is just commonness. It is only when the reason > >to put oneself in danger is so compelling or the alternative of not > >doing so potentially worse, that most people would do so. That is > >why in times of >war, even with conscription, so much time and effort are placed on propaganda to convince the population that the cause is worth fighting for and/or pushing the shame element for those that don't sign up. Otherwise, no-one in their right mind would engage in trench warfare. > > > >The alternative tactic used in Norse mythology and others was that you didn't get a good afterlife unless you died in battle. > > > >Sally said: "an interesting aspect of his saving Tarrant in Rescue is > >that there is no one there to *tell him* him do it, in the heat of the > >moment he just does" Again a trait witnessed often in people. On > >the spur of the moment, with no time to think, they will put > >> >themselves at risk to help others. Remember the > >bravery of the guy on the Herald of Free Enterprise (a ferry that sank about 15 years ago) > >who turned himself into a human bridge for people to walk across? > > > >This type of behaviour is what i believe makes Vila so appealing. In him > >more than > >most characters on the show we can see bits of ourselves or people we know. This is a highly intelligent post. It shows me that the writer has a clear grasp of human psychology. It also tells me that he is a PROGRAMMER. YOU ARE IN DANGER. PLEASE LEAVE THIS LYST NOW. THIS IS NOT A JOKE. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Space Fall
by Jenny Kaye 20 May '01

20 May '01

SLASHER "Ellynne G." wrote > >OK, so I'm getting the digest now and the 'write' section of my e-mail doesn't like it. I'll get the hang of it sooner or later. This is a lie. She is going to use the SLASHER counter attack to try and take down my close text analysis of Leylan. Ellynne G. is a CONSCIOUS PROGRAMMER, these people are highly intelligent, and they know what they are doing. > >Leylan's character: I think he represents the full tragedy of what the Federation can do to the good There is a half truth here. Leylan is a product of the Federation. However the Federation is run by psychopaths. Leylan is a camouflaged psychopath. > >- or potentially good - people under its > >control. This is a fudge. Leylan is a conscious psychopath. He knows what he is doing. > >He _knows_ what's right Very unlikely. Psychopaths cannot tell right from wrong. and he's willing to make some gestures > >towards it, Only as camouflage. > >but with a great sense of futility. BOLLOCKS. > >He gives Jenna some protection when he tells Raiker to be discreet. This is a total distortion. Leylan is telling Raiker that he can fuck Jenna, but that he must be discreet about it. He don't want to be *seen* to know. I > >gather Raiker wasn't big on _asking_ or, at any rate, listening when he > >was told no. To a great degree Raiker is Leylan's sockpuppet. > >But stop him entirely? He is not stopping him at all. He is giving him the all clear. > > This is the way the system works. That's true, but not in the sense that Ellyne means. > >This is what men like Raiker expect. What use is it to fight it? That's true as well, but not in the sense that "Ellynne G." means. > >He gives Raiker authority when they're under attack. That's true. Perhaps he was caving into fear or just desperate for a plan. BOLLOCKS. I _don't_ think he'd > >thought it through to the logical end. BOLLOCKS. Leylan is a very deep thinker, "Ellynne G." > >I did think he accepted > >responsibility for the consequences. That's true. That's Raiker's job. But that was part of the same > >attitude. It's not the full scale, heated outrage we might expect from > >someone who had no reason to expect a sane officer would do this (or who > >knows that no sane officer serving under him would think he could do this > >and get away with it). He had a good idea what Raiker was going to do. Raiker isn't insane as such, he is a psychopath. These people are calculating. Please do not mix up psychopath with psychotic. > > It's more the resignation of a man who knows he > >should have seen it because it was what Raiker would do He had seen it. - and who knows > >the only option to hold Raiker responsible is to admit his own complicity > >and be punished right along with him. BOLLOCKS. Leylan is playing a power game with Raiker. > >Then, when the chance comes to send the merry trio over, I think he OKs > >it partly because it's the only way he can avoid executing them (and this is the _captain_). There is a partial truth there. He doesn't want to publicly execute them but part of sending them over to the ship is to kill them. That's why he sends Raiker after them with a gun. Raiker is going to kill them and Leylan knows it. > >At the end, I think he was planning to take as much of the blame as he could to help spare the younger officer. BOLLOCKS. Artix is being used as a screen for Leylan. Leylan is only interested in protecting himself. Arguing that he did his best > >and lost (all true) No. All false. "Ellynne G." is lying to you. She is a CONSCIOUS PROGRAMMER. THESE PEOPLE ARE HIGHLY DANGEROUS. PLEASE LEAVE THE LYST NOW. doesn't cross his mind, not as a potentially winning > >argument. That's true. > >So, I see him as a potentially good man who may not like the evils he sees but considers himself powerless to oppose them in more than very small ways. Leylan is an evil man. He is the cause of evil. He may not like the status quo or the corruption but he sees > >himself as powerless to do anything about it Leylan is evil. - an attitude so strong it > >persists even when he has a position of power where he _could_ do something. BOLLOCKS. LEYLAN IS EVIL. PLEASE LEAVE THIS LYST NOW. WHY DO YOU THINK ALL THESE PEOPLE WRITING ARE SLASHERS? THEY ARE TRYING TO MAINTAIN THE CONDITIONING. THEY ARE NOW USING STRONG AND HIGHLY EFFECTIVE CONDITIONING TECHNIQUES TO KEEP YOU HERE. THEY REALISE THAT SOME OF YOU ARE STILL HERE BECAUSE YOU ARE WATCHING WHAT I AM DOING. THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY "ELYNNE" HAS ATTACKED MY "SPACE FALL" CHARACTER ANALYSIS. IT IS TO DRAW ME INTO DEFENDING IT. THEY ARE NOW TRYING TO USE ME TO CONDITION YOU. SOON I WILL HAVE TO LEAVE THIS LYST. IF YOU ARE STILL ON HERE BECAUSE OF ME, THAT IS VERY FOOLISH. PLEASE LEAVE NOW. IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK TO ME DO IT OFFLYST, DO NOT REMAIN HERE. GO NOW. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Federation political hierarchies & comparisons
by Sally Manton 20 May '01

20 May '01

Tanja wrote: <I know what you mean about the flavour of decadence, which is why I chose the Byzantine Empire,> Mmmm ... yes, quite possible, there's The Secret History (set in Justinian's rule, can't recall the author) in which an impressive amount of backstabbing, political skullduggery etc goes on (I'm not so sure about the immorality and decadence; for all her toy-boy proclivities, Servalan gives the impression in Gambit that she sees herself as Above All That.) <because during the Julian-Claudian dynasty, Rome actually was still on the rise, not in its decadent stage. Never mind Caligula's mad shenanigans, the infrastructure and the administration were still sound, and the Empire hadn't even reached its largest extension yet.> Again agreed; when using the term 'Roman' I was actually thinking less of the Federation as a whole and more of simply the elite, the President's court if you like. Compare it to decline of the aristocratic oligarchal elite under the late Roman Republic and early Empire. <Though... in the year of the Three Emperors, following Nero's suicide, we do have an atmosphere very like the Federation following Servalan's coup d'etat, with general after general going for the throne.> Interesting that Our Villainess, the one *we* have most interest in, is in fact one of the failures, President for 1-2 years at most, and would probably end up a minor, forgotten footnote in history (Blake, OTOH, will be a legend like Robin Hood or the Charge of the Light Brigade. IMO, he would be irresistable to folk lore, even more so after Gauda Prime). <However, with Vespasian finally installed, everything stabilised again. So, alternatingly, could it be that the Federation after a final major shake-up becomes even more, not less stable?> But outside factors are against it. The Federation, as I see it, is still in real trouble even as it expands in the last series; it's stretched its resources almost to breaking point and is heavily, dangerously dependent on one super-weapon (aka the writers thought up this brilliant McGuffin and luckily didn't have to deal with the 5th-series consequences). From Warlord : MIDA: Resistance means armies, Avon, whatever you say, and we haven't got them. AVON: Well, neither has the Federation. At least not sufficient to indulge in widespread conventional conquest. IMO, this larger picture would fit rather well with your later, decaying Empire. Though... in the year of the Three Emperors, following Nero's suicide, we do have an atmosphere very like the Federation following Servalan's coup d'etat, with general after general going for the throne. However, with Vespasian finally installed, everything stabilised again. So, alternatingly, could it be that the Federation after a final major shake-up becomes even more, not less stable? Tanja _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Blakes7 May 2001