Blakes7 May 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

84 participants
897 discussions

McVeigh
by Sondra Sweigman 10 May '01

10 May '01

I don't see one shred of evidence that McVeigh was driven by the desire to kill and hurt and that his ideological beliefs were only rationalizations. (Would make it so much easier if he were, wouldn't it?) But of course I believe McVeigh was wrong and Blake right. As Alison said, Blake's actions "feel" different. But why? How about this: McVeigh committed an act whose direct, inevitable, immediate consequence was mass homicide. Blake's destruction of Star One would have caused massive disruption of climate, food production, etc that may well have lead to massive loss of life indirectly and over the long run (or may not have), but by bringing down the Federation may also have saved more lives than it cost (in the long run). It's not about "real life" vs. "fiction", IMO. If Blake had thrown a bomb into a building full of innocents (children or not), I wouldn't be defending him. Sondra

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Re: [B7L] Re: If you could change ...
by M 10 May '01

10 May '01

On Sat, 28 Apr 2001 13:55:14, Sally Manton wrote: > If you could change just three things about the series - with no > restrictions on cast, budget, scripting etc - what would they be? > (Obviously, *my* first would be "don't let Blake go.") > firstly - have the battle at Star One, not just pre and post-battle. M. _______________________________________________________ Get 100% private, FREE email for life from Excite UK Visit http://inbox.excite.co.uk/

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Re: [B7L] Captain Vila
by M 10 May '01

10 May '01

On Sat, 28 Apr 2001 09:20:38 -0000, Jenny Kaye wrote: > Vila says, "Are you going to let me in on the secret?" to which Avon replies"You wouldn't understand it if we did." Avon then turns his back on Vila. This doesn't go down to well, prompting Vila to respond, "My classification might be Grade 4 ignorant, but I'm not stupid. I bought that classification from a friend at the testing centre." Avon looks on impassively, and Cally in the background rolls her eyes. Vila continues, "I didn't want to be a Space Captain now did I? They all ended up getting killed didn't they?" > Cally responds with, "Tarrant survived." "Oh yes," says Vila, " OK, I interpret this differently - firstly he says I wouldn't want to be a captain, not that he could pass the test. All he says is he bought the 'Grade 4 ignorant', all that means is that he's higher. I think he doesnt mean that he could be a Captain, but with the joking, he feels defensive and so complains about Tarrant. Also he never says he knew they'd get killed, I thought what this meant was kind of his way of saying that the Space Captains got killed so in hindsight who would want to be one. I think his phrasing is just a little off, possibly because he is nervous, and that hes saying he made the right choice never wanting to be one. Just my opinion, oh and I'm a little out of date, still on April. Comes of having a week or two off just as the lyst gets busy again. M. _______________________________________________________ Get 100% private, FREE email for life from Excite UK Visit http://inbox.excite.co.uk/

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Re: avon's stats
by Helen Krummenacker 10 May '01

10 May '01

> However, contained in my set was the card for Kerr Avon. > Here are his > ratings (all out of 10): > > Kick ass ability: 7 > Intellect: 9 > I can agree with these > Snogability: 6 > Definitely depends on who you are asking. And what episodes they've seen. > Fashion sense: 5 > A few disasters, but most of the outfits were flattering. Are we taking into account time period filmed? > Use of weapons: 9 > Good score! I take it the author of these cards doesn't believe Avon was aiming at Travis's head? > Drinking capacity: 8 > We've seen him drink one alcoholic beverage at a time in less than half a dozen eps all told. Where do they get the alcohol capacity rating from? Sounds like a fun game, though.

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Re: Stupid hero moments (was we can't all be geniuses)
by Helen Krummenacker 10 May '01

10 May '01

> Sally said: Want to ask Vila about that dropped knife in Cygnus Alpha? > Better yet, the dropped gun in Spaace Fall. And then (Gan's mistake among others) the prisoners all stare at him, allowing the guards to get the upper hand.

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We can't *all* be geniuses ... (was: moloch/limiters)
by Sally Manton 10 May '01

10 May '01

Jenny wrote: <I'll tell you one thing that scene does show - that Gan's more intelligent than he lets on. Which makes one wonder why he's hiding it ...> and that got me to thinking. Because it's based on an assumption that I don't agree with, that Gan acts (whether genuinely or not) stupidly. He doesn't, and he isn't. Not if you look at him as an individual, rather than compare him with the glittering group he's got himself mixed up with. Gan is actually far more Everyman than Vila, in my opinion - Vila being extremely sharp (if scatterbrained and lazy) and brilliant in his own speciality. Gan isn't *brilliant* at anything, and admits he's not the ideal pupil for a teacher like Orac (then again, who would be?) but when you actually read his lines in the scripts, he comes over as a plain-spoken man of average - possibly a little higher than average - intelligence. And he's got more common sense than all the rest put together (in fact, I'd argue that he and Soolin got nearly *all* of the common sense in this bunch). Sure, he says something stupid occasionally - name me *any* of Our Heroes or Villains who don't. Listen to him when he's arguin with Blake in Pressure Point or Shadow. He's not Blake's intellectual equal and knows it (and I think he respects both Blake's and Avon's intelligence, and defers to them when he thinks it right), but he puts his own points clearly and intelligently, unfazed by any notions of inferiority. He's not stupid. He doesn't act stupid. It's just the company he keeps. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: McVeigh
by Alison Page 10 May '01

10 May '01

Dana said - >>They had photogenic small children on all or most of the planets controlled by Star One also. That is precisely my point, to acknowledge a complexity brought into sharp relief by Harriet's anecdote, rather than to pretend my own opinion is unambiguously and obviously correct. >I impose stricter moral standards when judging works of fiction I think you are pulling my leg. For example I am happy to smile at Vila's thievery, but breaking and entering in real life rarely gives me a chuckle. Alison ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com **********************************************************************

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re: McVeigh
by Alison Page 10 May '01

10 May '01

Harriere said - >>I can understand if no one feels like having the Blake-at-Star-One thing just now, but it did make me pause to think about why McVeigh feels wrong and Blake mostly right. Real dead people instead of fictional ones? The photo of the small child being carried out of the building? The fact that, even at my most jaundiced, I don't quite put any part of American government on a par with the Federation? Or just that McVeigh is at the furthest part of the political spectrum from me?<< I too don't want any kind of foul-up on the list, but I've just got to say these are very important questions, and ones I would ask myself. I, too, would feel Blake was 'right' and McVeigh 'wrong'. Do I impose stricter moral standards in real life than I do when judging works of fiction? (god, I hope so). How would we feel if McVeigh had quoted B7 instead of Star Wars (unlikely of course, in practice, but morally conceivable). The argument he makes is of course one that everyone who has ever used force makes. I believe people like McVeigh want to kill and hurt, to use force to control other people, and that they therefore are only too willing to allow themselves to be whipped up into a frenzy of personifying a target (any target - the government will do) as pure evil, to give themselves internal justification for their violence. Just as the Yorkshire Ripper, Bible John, etc worked themselves up into a frenzy about how evil prostitutes were - as an excuse to attack women. The goal in each case is the violence, and the political or moral facade is merely that. I don't think Blake is portrayed as such a person, which means his actions 'feel' different to me, apart from the coolness that comes with contemplating fictional instead of real deaths. Alison ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com **********************************************************************

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Avon needs blake... (warning: character junkie stuff)
by Sally Manton 10 May '01

10 May '01

Marian said: <What's confusing is what motivates him. The short answer can only be he needs Blake.> And Nathan: Well, yes, he has worked out by now that just because he was 'rid' of the man, he wasn't *at all* rid of the other baggage (the crew, the Federation, Her Supremeness etc ...) which IMO was what he really *wantted* to be free of ... What motivates him is IMO very simple - he cares about the man and 'needs' to know that he's alive and all right. I also think he misses Blake on a personal basis (and not only because only Vila is *anywhere near* as good at creative arguing). I'm afraid <g> you'll never get me to agree to <he makes a conscious an overtly determined effort to reacquire the very person he was the least fond of> ... since (as most of the Lyst is well aware) I'd put Blake at the top of Avon's very very brief 'people who matter' list. (And yes, since he *is* stuck with fighting for his ship, Blake would come in decidedly handy for said fight.) And Marian again: <Apart from the last episode, I don't see any evidence in the series for Avon needing Blake. And in "Blake" he gives a rational reason - they need him as figurehead.IMO in Terminal Avon doesn't go looking for Blake because he needs him but out of a sense of duty.> Well yes, that's his rationalisations, neither of which stands up to scrutiny. A figurehead he could exploit? Come on, Avon couldn't manage Blake beforehand, I can't see him even in his wildest flights of fancy thinking he could do it with the man Orac's been telling him about. And remember, Orac's been looking for Blake for some time - before the figurehead idea was even formulated. *I* don't think Orac decided to do it all on his own ... And Terminal? A mere sense of duty towards Blake doesn't explain [a] 30 hours on the flight deck without sleep and yelling at the rest, [b] keeping it *from* the rest, [c] forcing them to risk the ship by going through the cloud of ick, [d] almost killing Tarrant when he tries to stop them, [e] going down alone although he's 99% sure it's a trap, [f] the depth of emotion in the scene with the faux-Blake, [f] refusing to give up the Liberator, first with a gun at his own head, then with one at Tarrant's, and [g] the emotion in that last 'you promised me Blake' and the whole 'Blake's dead' dialogue - he's too shocked to hide it as he normally does. Or if it does, I wouldn't mind someone feeling that dutiful next time *I'm* in trouble. My own view ... he did search for Blake for quite a lot of s3-4 - not continuously, certainly not obsessively, but seriously. He stopped soon after Volcano, believing that he believed Blake dead or permanently lost, and didn't start up again until after Rumours; stopped again after Terminal and then sometime mid-S4 began to believe that Servalan had lied and directed Orac to search again. He didn't mention it to the others (thus making sure we didn't hear about it :-)) since [a] in S3 it would have been rather embarrassing - even for Avon - to admit he misses and is worried about the "HIM" he so loudly said he wanted to be free of and[b] in S4 it would have been even worse given what actually happened at Terminal. The evidence is indirect and mostly based on outside evidence (Servalan's change of attitude towards Blake-as-bait in S3, Avon's reactions any time Blake gets mentioned :-), and his partial thawing mid-S4, round about when Orac *would* have begun the long chase for that 'one point' ...) but it's there and makes sense to me (and makes sense of Terminal, too). _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Avon needs blake...
by Sally Manton 10 May '01

10 May '01

Marian wrote: <In Assassin, you get something different; there's a deal made, but once Avon has what he wants, there is no reason for Avon to honour the deal with Nebrox, so why does Avon then save him?> <grin> He nearly didn't, you will notice - Neebrox had to *remind* him about his promise. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Blakes7 May 2001