Blakes7 May 2001

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84 participants
897 discussions

Re: [B7L] Avon needs blake...
by Sally Manton 10 May '01

10 May '01

Marian *did write: <No, Jenny wrote that :-)> Oops. Sorry. I'm really better at cutting and pasting when scissors are involved ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Avon needs blake...
by Jenny Kaye 10 May '01

10 May '01

Marian wrote: > ><grin> He nearly didn't, you will notice - Neebrox had to *remind* him >about his promise.< > >Yes, which might indicate he may be less a man of his word than he claims. >Still, I think he'd want to keep his part of a deal made with Blake. But in Terminal and Blake, his actions don't have to do with a deal-- the last deal that he made with Blake was concluded by that point, as Avon got the Liberator; once a deal's done, Avon isn't generally interested in anything further (even in holding up his own side of the bargain, unless he has to), there's no hold over him. Avon does seem to have believed in Blake, which suggests that a small part of Avon was an idealist. But then, to be a cynic you have to be an idealist. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: bleakness and Servalan (was Terminal)
by Jenny Kaye 10 May '01

10 May '01

Marian wrote: Although >well aware about the repercussions her actions will have on Marriott's wife >and children, she's quite unconcerned about them. And of all the surgeons she could have chosen, she picks the one whose death would have an impact on Travis-- she's twisting the knife. >I'm not sure whether Kasabi really meant that, or if she just said the most >hurtful thing she could think of. I think she did mean it. Servalan does not deny that the report was bad, and if she had to use her connections to get where she was, this suggests that she did have to overcome a bad report. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] We can't *all* be geniuses ... (was: moloch/limiters)
by Jenny Kaye 10 May '01

10 May '01

Sally wrote: >He's not stupid. He doesn't act stupid. It's just the company he keeps. Oh, he does act stupid. There's a lot of Gan's actions which are put down by a lot of people (including the crew) to his being stupid-- not checking to see if Jenna was behind him on Cephlon, or tearing out the computer banks in "Breakdown." But if he's doing these things, and he's not stupid, why is he doing them? Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: moloch/limiters
by Jenny Kaye 10 May '01

10 May '01

Sally wrote: >Jenny wrote: >First of all, there's a good deal to suggest that Doran was convicted (at >least partly) of murder. He talks about dreaming of "committing every crime >in the book";> > >Well, that only proves that he at the very least does exaggerate, wouldn't >you say? Unless he's Methuselah, he *can't* have <g> It's a cheap cliché. It didn't say he *had.* It said he dreamt of it when in his prison cell. Which rather suggests that he's criminally minded, and wants to commit crimes. Including violent ones, it seems. ><he says "When Doran gets aggravated, he kills people"; he shoots two >unarmed guards with nothing more than a quip about the gun going off in his >hand. The man's a killer.> > >So is Avon (the visa seller he mentions in Countdown). Just because someone >has killed doesn't *at all* mean they were convicted of murder. We don't know the circumstances under which Avon kills the visa seller, and Avon at least had a motive. Doran shoots two unarmed people and jokes about it-- again, more the action of a habitual killer than someone killing because they have to. ><But we never *do* find out exactly what Gan was convicted of, we only have >Gan's word for it.> > >We only have one person's word for a lot of things throughout the series >(again, there's Avon's story to Del Grant). Yes, and quite a number of them do turn out to be lies or versions. Even Avon's story to Del Grant (and vice versa) contained a number of things which turned out not to be true (even though this wasn't conscious on either man's aprt). >Personally, I believe Gan, since >I don't think the evidence contradicts his story. I think that's debatable. A man kills one guard and has an implant in his head (which doesn't even seem to stop him killing, or getting into states in which he might kill)? Surely a lot easier to give him five to ten? And why give him a limiter and send him to a prison planet, where he's not likely to be a danger to Federation guards? Were they worried he was going to be a danger to other prisoners perhaps? Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Gan defense
by Jenny Kaye 10 May '01

10 May '01

Helen wrote: > > Jenny objected: > > > > But think about it. "My woman." Not "Sarah," or "Becky," or "Jill"; > > not > > "someone I cared for" or "a woman who meant a lot to me." Very > > cavemannish > > really; it doesn't give her a name or a face or even suggest that > > there was > > anything at all between them. > > >It's normal. I say "my husband" instead of "Allan", if I don't expect >people to know who he is from the name, in relationship to me. If I >wasn't married to him, I'm not sure what I would call him: "my guy" >would be less juvenile than boyfriend, less explicit than lover and less >of a mouthful than anything else. 1/ If someone's husband/partner/etc. is dead though, they don't generally go around saying "my man's dead" except in a certain sort of novel; 2/ If your husband suddenly started calling you "my woman," I'm not sure it conveys the right message... > > What is he trying to convey by > > having Gan > > say "my woman"? > > >Laws that did not allow certain people to marry? We know of married >lawyers and scientists, but was marriage recognised in the working >classes? Or that someone had forgotten whether it had been established >that the marriage contract existed in the future and used the same >terms? But if he was trying to convey a class divide of this sort, you'd expect to see it elsewhere. One (arguably) working-class character (we don't actually have any proof that he *was* working-class, come to that) uses that phrase, but we don't see it elsewhere, or any sort of reference that this divide exists. When other characters call women "woman" in the B7 universe, they are generally people who are brutish and more than a little contemptuous of women-- Shrinker aside, Jarvik calls Servalan "woman," and he is the archetypical B7 sexist pig. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] The End (Was: Re: scripts and other ephemera)
by Marian de Haan 10 May '01

10 May '01

Sally wrote: >Jacqui wrote re Avon: ><It also depends 'what/who' he is looking at.>< >Not Sleer, please *noone* say Sleer. > >He doesn't have to be looking at anyone or anything in particular, just his own descent into hell.< Maybe he's seeing clonemaster Fen and hearing that angel choir :-) Marian

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Re: [B7L] Avon needs blake...
by Marian de Haan 10 May '01

10 May '01

Jenny wrote: >Marian wrote: >>I don't think Avon would lose any sleep over it but, as a man of his word, he'd prefer to honour his debt if the occasion arose.<< > >Avon gives his word, but it's always based on some kind of deal.< Exactly my point. The deal was that, after they'd dealt with Star One, Avon would take Blake to Earth in exchange for command of the Liberator. Blake's disappearance prevents Avon from carrying out the last part of the deal, so the debt is still there. >In Assassin, you get something different; there's a deal made, but once Avon has what he wants, there is no reason for Avon to honour the deal with Nebrox, so why does Avon then save him?< Because he promised :-) Mind, he has to be reminded of that promise, but then he honours the deal. Marian

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Re: [B7L] Re: bleakness and Servalan (was Terminal)
by Marian de Haan 10 May '01

10 May '01

Helen said about Servalan: >She does appear innocent in the beginning, I think because of the hairstyle-- it's rather like the Peter Pan cut. I wonder if the changes in her retinue also helped with the illusion of powerful aging-- in the beginning, she stands next to Travis, and looks like she could be his teenage neice.< Servalan never seems innocent to me. From the beginning she shows herself to be Travis's master (letting him wait for admission in Seek-Locate-Destroy). And in Deliverance she's already trying to strenghten her power by going behind the Federation's back in the Orac deal. Although well aware about the repercussions her actions will have on Marriott's wife and children, she's quite unconcerned about them. To me this shows she's power mad and rotten to the core right from the beginning. >"Pressure Point" actually verbalizes some of it; Servalan was apparently so spoiled it never occurred to her even as a cadet that there were ethical concerns in the way the Federation operated. Kasabi considered her the epitome of what was wrong. Yet, in the end, Kasabi faulted herself for not having tried to reach through and find something decent within the brat.< I'm not sure whether Kasabi really meant that, or if she just said the most hurtful thing she could think of. (And her words did hurt - splendid scene!) Marian

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The End (Was: Re: scripts and other ephemera)
by Sally Manton 10 May '01

10 May '01

Jacqui wrote re Avon: <It also depends 'what/who' he is looking at.> Not Sleer, please *noone* say Sleer. He doesn't have to be looking at anyone or anything in particular, just his own descent into hell. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Blakes7 May 2001