Blakes7 May 2001

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897 discussions

Re: [B7L] scripts and other ephemera
by Jenny Kaye 04 May '01

04 May '01

Snipping together two e-mails here.... Julia writes: > > > >> >Yes, I am. Longer term residents of this list have seen a good few > > > >> >members turn up who had not seen all of the series; had seen none of > > >it on arrival but had heard it talked about elsewhere and wanted to learn > > > >> >more about a show that didn't have neat tidy endings performed by > > >shiny happy people; > > > > > > > >And they come here? > > > > > >I believe that's what I just said. Then they must have been severely disappointed. >Several of them have spoken for > > >themselves now. Yes, by saying, "I didn't know who Chris Boucher was." Only one has said whether or not having this information would have influenced her to buy the script, and the answer was pretty negative. >I note that you've snipped one of the categories - a > > >large one, and the one I'm (almost) in. > >How can you be "almost" in a category? You either are, or you aren't. > >I'd only just got hold of the videos and worked my way through them when I got net access, and at that > > >point I could *not* cite chapter and verse on the production crew. I > > >would have still been extremely interested in a script with the personal > > >notes of any of the production crew, So you'll be bidding for this script then will you? BTW, where does it say in Judith's email that the script has "personal notes from production crews" on it? >partly for the thrill of owning a > > >little bit of B7, but mostly because I'm one of those people who isn't > > >just content to watch the silk handkerchiefs but wants to know how the > > >trick was done. This is one of the many reasons I go wandering around > > >the country to theatres where Gareth is performing. It's wonderful to be > > >able to sit in the bar with one of the actors afterwards and pick apart > > >how the play was put together, to compare what I saw during the > > >performance with what the production crew were trying to achieve. So that fact that Gareth Thomas, or Paul Darrow is appearing in these productions is pure co-incidence then, is it? Having read your reply to Leslie, I can see that you are obviously a great fan of the theatre, and particularly in the detail of how plays are put together. And having such a great interest in the background of such productions and being such a dedicated and diligent fan of Blake's 7, then I am sure that you will also able to furnish me with extensive details about the workings of a television studio in the last 1970's, early 1980's. > > >It can be very interesting to know what was intended. >A good example of this for me is Blade Runner. I happened to read an SF-orientated review > > >before I saw the film. > > > > The reviewer had seen the original preview cut, > > >was thoroughly impressed, and was horrified when he went back to see the > > >release version. He described what had been done to the preview. I went > > >to see the film knowing something about what Ridley Scott had intended, > > >and came away much more impressed by the remaining traces of "Do > > >Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" than by the "Raiders of the Lost > > >Androids" studio cut. The messing about had completely changed the feel > > >of the film, for the poorer in my opinion. > Now, a cynic, like Avon for instance (funny how life sometime imitates B7) would read the above, which states that you believe the alterations to Ridley Scott's film turned it into "Raiders of the Lost Androids", and may very well come to the conclusion that you don't know what the hell you are talking about. Of course I'm not that cynical. I believe you have a particular interest in this film, and therefore, I would like to discuss it with you. Now. In your email to Leslie you went even further in your analysis. Leslie said: > >Same notation, actually. I think your reviewer got it right, but I also >think >that if you really want to know what the production crew were up to, you'd >be better off reading what they themselves had to say. And you replied: >In this case a lot of it was already a matter of public record - the >review was useful because it was by someone who had seen the original >cut and could say how it had been changed. See what I mean? This again supports my view that you have taken a great interest in this film and therefore, know a great deal about the issues it covers, the characters, the locations used, the reasons why the film was changed etc, and most importantly of all, the pivotal character and the hidden subtext relating to them. >The messing about had completely changed the feel > > >of the film, for the poorer in my opinion. > Much as I like big explosions >and neat special effects, I'm primarily a litfan. Ridley Scott wanted to >make _Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep_, I wanted to see it. So what you are saying is that Ridley Scott wanted to make the book, but because of the "butchering", the film turned into an action adventure similar to the Indiana Jones trilogy. I knew >from interviews what Ridley Scott thought about the butchering of his >vision, although I think he was being a little less blunt about it at >that time than later on when the Director's Cut came out. (I have seen >the Director's Cut. I think it's actually *better* than the book.) Right. So how did the 1992 Director's Cut vary from the original put out in 1982? > >on the script for _Blake_, > >> highlighting what I think is one of Boucher's rare duds. > > > > >Such changes are known to have happened in B7. There was a good example > > >of this given in the analysis of Gambit script changes in an article in > > >Horizon 39. Another example is Vere Lorrimer's infamous habit of shoving > > >in action sequences and then cutting exposition to bring the episode > > >back to length, occasionally leaving out critical plot points in the > > >process. Is that right? Okay, give me an example then of a Vere Lorrimer story that happened to, and what the "critical plot points" cut out of it were? > > >And then there's Mary Ridge's notes on the script for _Blake_, > > >highlighting what I think is one of Boucher's rare duds. In your other email Leslie writes: > >What? The most powerful, dramatic, grim and bleak ending to a series ever >on television? Oh well, tastes differ. And you reply: >No, one bad line:-) From the description I've heard of the notes on the >script (I haven't seen it myself), Ridge was responsible for dropping a >few words from the script, which action IMO heightened the impact of >that last scene. What were these "dud" words? Jenny Ps. Have you got any scripts from the show? What colour are they? And yes, there is a sensible reason for asking... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: If you could change ...
by Sally Manton 04 May '01

04 May '01

Okay, my own suggestions ... 1. A few increases in the regular/semi-regular cast. As stated, keep Blake in Series 3; having him battered mentally and spiritually by the lead-up to Star One, and now having to deal with the fall-out of the War, the rebellion going on on Earth *and* that little deal with Avon ... it would be marvellous (and there'd be no need to let go of Tarrant, since it would just bring the crew back to the original six). In addition, bring back Bercol and Rontane (if her Supremeness can survive an exploding Liberator, they could survive an exploding Space Command) *or* joban for odd, sly cameos in the 'coup' episodes - scrambling for survival following Servalan's coup, involved - but carefully keeping their hands clean - in Sula's; making a possible appearance as one of those who deposed Servie? Oh yes, and then there's Jarriere of course. 2. More money, yes, but equally important, more *time* for the scriptwriting process, so that duds could be rejected or rewritten. This in itself could do a lot for the sillier plots, the dodgy timeline (early series 1 is a beauty!!), the actual science and the political background, and also the wonkier characterisation, like Tarrant in 3rd series (a part written with a far older person in mind, and clearly *not* allowed for in the scripts), Soolin in early 4th series (no character at all), or the general 'wimp-the-women' trend (Bob Holmes is wonderful, but I'd have *loved* someone to take a pen to his lines for Jenna and Cally) 3. Either kill off Servalan in Terminal and bring in a new (or previous) villain, or do *something* about the god-awful 'death-to-Servalan-spotters' storyline; the idea that she's killing off anyone who recognises her, while making not the slightest attempt to disguise herself, *while* aiming to return to the political level where an awful lot of post-coup survivors would *have* to recognise the former President ... I find this really really grating (I'm actually very good at suspending disbelief, but there *does* come a point ...) And for the three episodes ... 1. I'm very fond of Voice from the Past (it's my Animals), but I'd be even fonder of the post-Voice addendum showing the angst-ridden fall-out for Blake and Our Heroes. And have a decent villain. And NO MUMMY SUITS. 2. Cygnus Alpha - do something about Brian Blessed, to make him underplay the role, or get someone else who *would*. It would have made a huge difference IMO if Vargas had been a quieter, more subtle menace (and didn't wear tennis shoes). 3. Power. Something *should* be done about Power, but I don't know what ... ******************* "And as for *you*," Vila repeated, catching hold of the little Avon in the very act of jumping over the Scorpio control panel, "I'll shake you into a Decima, I will!" He took him off the table and shook him backwards and forwards with all his might. The little Avon made no resistance whatsoever: only his face grew very small, and his eyes got small and black: and still, as Vila went on shaking him, he kept on growing shorter - and fatter - and rounder - and - - And it actually *was* - a rat. ******************** As to who *really* dreamed it ...? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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This is *my* ship
by Leia Fee 04 May '01

04 May '01

>Of course, this backfires on him in the long run. Servalan keeps on >after him partly because *she* wants to have a play with his pretty toy. his um...<splutter> >(And no, I did *not* mean that the way I would have on The Other List, >so get your minds out of the gutter.) Oh. <pulling self together> Who me?<grin> Ahem. Yes, while the Liberator may be well armed and fast it is not exactly inconspicuous. And it must really bug the Federation to have such an advanced bit of kit *not* belonging to them. Leia

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Fans everywhere
by Leia Fee 04 May '01

04 May '01

Down the pub the other night chatting about work and I mentioned something about one of the computers playing up (the computers on my networks are named after B7 characters). The friend I was with asked which one and I told her 'Vila' at which the guy next to me at bar pipes up "Oh is that Vila as in 'I should really introduce him now, he's at his best when he's unconscious.'" I nearly bounced off my seat, usually people look at me blankly when I mention B7 or summon up some memory of 'some old Sci-FI program' Leia

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If you could change...
by Leia Fee 03 May '01

03 May '01

>> 2. Explore the background a bit. I would have loved to here more about >>the Federation, it's history, more about the social and political setup. >Yes, that would have been brilliant, and probably very easily done with >dialogue. Still, makes fanfic more interesting <g> This is true<grin> > 2. Explore the background a bit. I would have loved to here more about the Federation, it's history, more about the social and political setup. Yes, that would have been brilliant, and probably very easily done with dialogue. Still, makes fanfic more interesting <g> >> 1. The Way Back. I'd have liked to see how the others ended up in that >>holding cell too, course that would have made it rather over 50 minutes but >>there we go... Kinda fits with my wanting more background I guess. >Yes, I would have liked that too. 'Colditz' spends the first four episodes >introducing each one of the main characters, and their individual stories of how >they ended up in 'Colditz', without using the other cast members. That would ahve been interesting. Give each of them their own episode, setting up their backstory. I think most of the main cast could haeve carried of an ep with none of the others in. Leia

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If you could change...
by Leia Fee 03 May '01

03 May '01

>Ooh, poor fanfic people! Evil person, depriving them of their raison d'etre Who me? <grin> >But yes, it would've been nice. At least they have a basic >background. By comparison, Soolin is a cardboard cutout. Yep I never reallyliked Soolin, I didn't actively dislike her either mind...she was just *there*. If you know what I mean. Leia

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Re: [B7L] Chris Boucher
by Tavia 03 May '01

03 May '01

Neil: >So I think Judith's PS was perfectly justified, >and didn't warrant the sarcastic response it got. There's also a bit of an element of the Golden Rule of Communication: Tell your audience (1) something they already know, and (2) something they don't already know. Tavia

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Re: If you could change ...
by Sally Manton 03 May '01

03 May '01

Here's another little exercise, if anyone's interested, in two parts: If you could change just three things about the series - with no restrictions on cast, budget, scripting etc - what would they be? (Obviously, *my* first would be "don't let Blake go.") If you could change just three episodes, which are they and how would you do it? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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This is *my* ship ...
by Sally Manton 03 May '01

03 May '01

A thought arising from one of the other threads ... Avon wants the Liberator, right? (Well, *he* doesn't say so, but he implies it fairly strongly in The Web and Pressure Point, and there's that little deal with Blake in Star One, and that *extremely* possessive "this is *my* ship" in Powerplay). But *why* do you think he wants it? What does he think he wants it *for*? It appears that he hasn't given any thought to this, and once he's got it, he - and the rest - muddle around for half a season almost *looking* for something to do with it (IMO). And it's fairly clear he *doesn't* include being leader as part of the package (Kairos just being the most pointed proof of this). Was it just that it's the bestest toy a computer genius could want? Or he just wants it because it's Blake's (viewers may not agree on that <veg> but right or wrong, as far as the *crew* were concerned it was Blake's) and was tied up in his ambivalence towards Blake and the rebellion? Any opinions on exactly what was going through his mind on this point? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Viewing tips
by Andrew Williams 03 May '01

03 May '01

When watching "Orbit", extra depth can be added by running around madly, throwing everything out the windows during the "shuttle-lightening" scenes. Think how much your friends will enjoy your attempts to bring viewer participation to their home! NB leave the TV until last.

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Blakes7 May 2001