Blakes7 August 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

51 participants
264 discussions

Gestalt
by Leia Fee 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Hmm If you mixed up all the crew you'd certainly have a very bothered person. Some of them ahve such completely opposite outlooks. As for myself I'm probably most like Vila - jumpy, babbling on, and I could sleep for Wales<grin> though I can be an Avon-like snitty techy when it's been one of those days... Leia

1 0

Re: Sayings from the series
by Helen Krummenacker 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

The "Have you considered amputation?" line is one I bite back generally unless I know the person who's complaint I am responding to knows the series. "Cheers, ORAC" sometimes. "I'm tired and I hurt." altogether too frequently.

1 0

Re: [B7L] Shadows of Blake
by Sally Manton 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Dana wrote: <Actually, it's the people of Lindor I'm worried about - we have no canonical evidence that they want Sarkoff back. As I remarked on another occasion, perhaps "Sarkoff" is Lindorian for "Bill Clinton."> And are you *so* sure that the USA wouldn't have voted Clinton in again had they had a choice? <veg> from the outside, it still looked like he was bloody popular ... But back to Lindor - no, it's not canon, but it's fairly heavily implied that he should have won the elections (why rig them otherwise?). And remember what the Lindor Strategy involved: "The Lindor Strategy. That's what they called it. It began with the rigged elections which removed you from power and will only end when you return to your planet as the puppet leader of a subjugated people." (Blake, Bounty) i e, he's going to be have go back *anyway*, if not now by Blake, later by the Federation. The 'peaceful retirement' is a myth, as is the idea that Sarkoff has a choice at all (rather nice point, that, echoing the other times in the series when supposed choices turned out to be ephemeral). The difference is that if he goes back now (it is again implied) enough people *will* rally around him to prevent the war and thereby remain out of Federation control (again i e, that the majority would want him back). If he doesn't go now, the Federation will take over Lindor, then return him at a more savage metaphorical gunpoint than Blake does. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

2 1

Shadows of Blake
by Sally Manton 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Stephen wrote: <What amuses me about the little mutual deprecation society Avon and Part of the problem here - of Boucher's darker view of Blake and of people who try to do right - is that, while he only *wrote* 4 episodes with Blake in them, three of them are among the very very best in the series (and would be my choice *for* the best) - Shadow, Star One and Blake. The impact of these three tends to cast a greater shadow (pun not intended) than the actual wordage would justify. Notwithstanding that Chris Boucher is God <g> he's by no means a perfect one, and in his own way is as conventional as Terry Nation. The difference is in the conventions he follows - the (then new, by now a tad cliched) ones that the good guys are just as bad as the villains, there's no really any such thing as a hero, morality is *always* suspect and it's all doomed anyway. Life's a bitch and then you die. Boucher was very good at shades of muck, but what he *wasn't* good at - and tended to avoid - was actually writing about genuinely good people (this is not unusual, they are actually much much harder to write well). If you look at the episodes he wrote, there really are only three characters at the most whom I would call essentially good (by which I dont mean wholly). Hanna, the drug addict in Shadow. Rashell in Weapon (who I think is poorly written but well acted). Max in Deathwatch. The rest are all tending *very* much to the middling to bad range, or moral voids like Clonemaster Fen (or maybe not; for all the lofty words, what she has done is made a clone of a man - without his knowledge or agreement - for the use and abuse of his enemies. Hardly moral). Of the crew, only Gan comes out clean (and he just wasn't interested in Gan). Cally is self-rightous (Star One) and holier-than-thou (RoD), and Tarrant swings from a standard and quite appealing hero (Deathwatch) to a *complete* and remarkably stupid bastard (City) according to the needs of the story. He does wriggle out of trying to get inside Blake's head and give any idea of *why* Blake acts as he does, which would IMO enrich the moral complexity and alleviate the rather one-sidedness of both Shadow and Star One. He thought of, and thought he was writing, Avon as a psychopath. And the only member of the crew he *invented* was a woman who killed for money and didn't show any positive human qualities till near the end of the series. To be blunt, I don't think Boucher *was* interested in ambiguity (as it by definition must include the shades of light as well as dark) so much as the more dramatic qualities of the darker side. A Blake's 7 - and a Blake - that was wholly his creation would have been no more rounded and complex than one that was entirely Terry Nation's. It's the tension arising from his darker overlay *onto* Nation's lighter, more 'heroic' origins that overcomes the cliches of both and gives B7 its unique flavour. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

4 4

Re: Orbit
by Betty Ragan 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Responding to me, Helen Krummenacker wrote: > > And seems to get *far* less than his share of the blame, IMO... > > "Him"? I thought ORAC was generally called "it". I assume ORAC was the > one being referred to as coming out of it the same. Yes, I was referring to Orac there... And, actually, the crew are pretty inconsistent about which pronoun they use with Orac. Avon always sticks to "it" for all of the computers (although it's possible that even he slips at some point or other), but the others often use "he," particularly Vila. I have a vague memory of *somebody* actually using two different pronouns for Orac in the same sentence, but I may have invented that in my head. (Hmm, obviously this is a question which merits considerable research. Which I am, I must admit, far too lazy to do.) Personally, I generally use "he" or "she" to refer to anything sentient/sapient (which Orac, IMO, certainly is). So it'd annoy Avon. What do I care? :) > And I think ORAC is > always accredited with a fair amount of blame. Avon seems to get the bulk of it, though. "How could he do such a thing!" and so on. It often seems to me (in fanfics and so forth, anyway) that people tend to overlook the fact that it was all *Orac's* idea... -- Betty Ragan ** ragan(a)sdc.org ** http://www.sdc.org/~ragan/ Dr. Hibbert: "You need some friends that aren't printed on paper." Comic Book Guy: "You mean action figures?" -- _The Simpsons_

6 10

Re: [B7L] Gshault
by Sally Manton 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Iain wrote: <I have: Vila's sobriety Avon's empathy Blake's caution Orac's patience> My sorta man :-) And the sex appeal of ...? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

4 5

Re: [B7L] Shadows of Blake
by Mac4781＠aol.com 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Mistral quoting Sally: > > At the time, from what I can see, it's just a heist for the riches it will > > bring *them*. > > Possibly for the others, but I don't think that's true of Avon; We get the following exchange about stealing Feldon crystals in GAMES. It gives an indication of how some of them stand in the greed vs. hurting the Federation category: AVON: You could run anything on it in theory. That's why the Federation is staking so heavily. The consignment we are after is worth approximately nine hundred million. TARRANT: Let's get one thing straight. We want it to use, not to sell. We've seen what it can do. We can't risk it getting back to the Federation. DAYNA: Yes, agreed. VILA: Not by me, it's not. You steal for your reasons, I'll steal for mine. SOOLIN: Why not get it first and quarrel about it later? Carol

1 0

Re: [B7L] Shadows of Blake
by Mac4781＠aol.com 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Sally wrote: > Klyn is a receptionist in a vigilante police base Sally, you've said that it's a vigilante police base before. How can it be a vigilante police base when Arlen goes from being a wanted criminal to a member of the security team? There's also this conversation that recognizes Blake is in charge and that Arlen has joined *his* team. ARLEN: Do you want him killed?! BLAKE: No, of course not! When he knows as much about this as you do now, he'll join us, like you did. ARLEN: He passed the test, then. BLAKE: I'm satisfied. There's also the fact that it would be very dangerous for Blake to lure Avon onto the base if it is a vigilante base. Avon has a "particularly" large price on his head. If this is a vigilante base, it's a very dangerous place for him to be. Any passing bounty hunter might kill him to collect the reward. Carol

1 0

Re: [B7L] Shadows of Blake
by Natasa Tucev 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Stephen wrote: >> Someone on the >> Lyst suggested the name of the episode, apart from >> the drug, also alludes to >> the Terra Nostra being the Federation's 'shadow'. > ><bows modestly> Oops, sorry, Stephen, I forgot it was you. At any rate, I thought it was a very shrewd observation. >I think that Blake's darker side had been hinted at >earlier in Mission to Destiny, Breakdown and Bounty >for example. I can't remember anything naughty Blake did in Bounty - apart from breaking Sarkoff's records. Could you remind me? >I think Boucher is more >detached from Blake. Nation's Blake is a bit like the >wartime view of Churchill - shown fighting for freedom >in a heroic light. Boucher's version is more like >Churchill as shown by modern historians - yes he was a >good guy but he could be ruthless, nasty and just >plain wrong on occasions. So I think that Boucher is a >revisionist, subverting the orthodox view I'm all for subversion - but what do you get when you subvert the idea that people should oppose totalitarianism and big, powerful states which tend to control the world? I view B7 as a subversive discourse in itself. Practically all of the pop-culture heroes of today are law abiders, police officers, star fleet officers, army officers, always upholding status quo. On the other hand, B7 confronts us with a world order which is fundamentally wrong and which *has* to be opposed. I don't think you can compare this to Churchill - he also defended status quo against the bad guys. Even Robin Hood doesn't jeopardize the given order, since he just opposes the usurper of the throne, not the concept of the throne in itself. The idea behind B7 is much more radical. No, I don't think it was a good idea to subvert Blake and everything he stands for. N.

9 10

Re: [B7L] Shadows of Blake
by Sally Manton 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Mistral wrote: <Not *solely* murder for gain, because it will hit the Federation in the pocketbook,> but there's not a word to indicate that Our Heroes think of it that way, just that they will make a huge amount out of it (and make it from Zerok, since that's who they're stealing it from if I recall correctly?) <and the guards are IIRC Federation -> But none of our lot know that at the time Soolin's killing them. <seems a fairly acceptable method of guerilla rebellion as such things go.> In hindsight, yes (well, except that they lost it all to Her Sleeriness). At the time, from what I can see, it's just a heist for the riches it will bring *them*. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

2 1

← Newer
1
...
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
Older →

Jump to page:

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

Blakes7 August 2001