Blakes7 September 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

56 participants
222 discussions

Re: [B7L] decentring morality
by Alison Page 26 Sep '01

26 Sep '01

Una said - >>I don't think there's that much to wonder about on that score <g> 'Not at all' I think! What I was originally thinking of was the formalism, rather than the particular moral (or other) message conveyed by that formalism. However, because what everyone had to say on the other subject was so interesting, I didn't press the point. I was thinking of the elegance and symmetry of the structure of B7, how situations are set up, and then inverted. Let me just take one, comparatively minor example, which is Jenna being invited to take the Liberator and run, at the start of her journey (Cygnus Alpha) and at the end of it (Star One), and refusing each time, with that refusal having a different meaning. If that was the only example it wouldn't exactly tip the scales, but we can uncover so many of a similar kind, in each character's arc and in the multiple arcs of the different stories and the joint story. I think that people do impose elegance and symmetry on artifacts of all kinds, above and beyond the demands of practicality. One question is are the fans imposing the symmetry, or was part of that work done for them in advance? I would say the latter. But I enjoy the elegance in either case. >> It's not just reflecting the age, I don't think, because you wouldn't find it in >>any other show of the time. >I can think of one or two. Where do you see this kind of presentation of morality in contemporary shows? I think I find it everywhere because it's what I'm interested in. I meant conveyance of morality through this particular metaphor, I think. Anyway, it doesn't really matter what I actually meant, and to be honest I don't remember. A concept as broad as 'morality'? - yes, of course it's found elsewhere A particular moral theme? - It would be interesting to consider which shows were most similar to B7, then and now. I know one you'll mention. A convoluted structure intended to convey a subversive morality? - I would say pretty rare, but I'm prepared to be convinced. Alison ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com **********************************************************************

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Re: decentering moraltiy
by Helen Krummenacker 26 Sep '01

26 Sep '01

Susan Beth pointed out the practical reasoning that might be behind Blake's eye injury... but it was *still* on the same side of the face as Travis's. This is one of those instances where intent is possible, plausible, but also explainable by other means (once you have it to an eye injury, the chances are 50-50, and if it had BEEN the other eye, the fans would talk about 'mirror images' and how Travis was blind to good and maybe Blake has gotten a bit blind to evil in individuals).

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Re: Interpreting
by Helen Krummenacker 26 Sep '01

26 Sep '01

I seem to find myself 100% in agreement with Kathryn Anderson on Literary Criticism. I've done it to pass English classes; take the idea and interpret the story in terms of it. It's an interesting game or exercise, but when one deliberately attemtps to read something in to a story, one is finding what one seeks. I've just thought about some of the books I've intended to write in terms of how they'd be analyized by someone who wanted to make a point or pass an essay, and I'm horrified. In telling a story of male bonding and coming of age, I could be labelled a mysogynist. In writing a story about a twin brother and sister's seperate journeys to break the Evil Overlord's hold on their family, I may be tapping the Jungian idea of anima/animus (which is fine by me, I do like the idea) or I haven't (Fruedian) resolved my attraction to my own brother. Ick. Why should someone who doesn't know me pass judgement on my family life. Another story, a love story is set partly back in in medival England and partly in modern day. Christianity is therefore referenced in the story, but if one were to start analyzing it in Christian terms, well, I'm not Christian and if someone wants to compare the girl to the Virgin Mary it's somethinghappening in their head, definitely not mine. As an author, I think my intent ought to count for something-- not that there aren't points to the theoretical critiquess mentioned above. If I get back to the coming of age story, I may need to add a better female character (what am I thinking now? I was going to add the Susan Calvinish figure in just another few chapters). *sigh* It's hard enough to write a story without wondering what a critic will turn it into.

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RE: medical, was [B7L] Alma Mater
by jacquispeel＠netscape.net 26 Sep '01

26 Sep '01

"Ellynne G." <rilliara(a)juno.com> wrote: > > >On Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:08:24 -0600 Betty Ragan <ragan(a)sdc.org> writes: >> Sally Manton wrote: >> >> > Also BTW, that rather unnerves me when Blake, in Orac, suggests >> that they do >> > the operation on Ensor. Sure, he doesn't have any choice at that >> stage, but >> > the idea of Our Heroes messing around with scalpels is a tad >> worrying. >> >> I imagine that that would probably be a *much* simpler and more >> routine >> operation than repairing the limiter, though. > >Well, just because they'd sent one of the Federation's best surgeon's >before doesn't mean that it wasn't a flip it open, take out the old >batteries, toss in the new ones kind of device. They probably just >needed a doctor to do it or it wasn't covered by warranty. > >Ellynne > But why did the Ensors leave it to the last minute - why not go chasing the required parts somewhat earlier. The impression given is that Aristo was 'out of the way' rather than 'third bus stop after back of the beyond' (g). Jacqui __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

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testing, testing...
by Julia Jones 26 Sep '01

26 Sep '01

Sorry folks, but I'm on a sircam fishing trip. I keep getting 200 kb emails to message-IDs I've posted here. Demon need a nice fresh example before they can swat him... -- Julia Jones "We are flamethrower of borg: you will be incinerated." - ppint on afp, about afp

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Re: [B7L] decentring morality
by Mac4781＠aol.com 26 Sep '01

26 Sep '01

I didn't have time to chime in on this before, but since Una kindly quoted it again. :) Natasa wrote: > Cally is, however, very often removed from the centre of action. Her > exchange with Tarrant re Shrinker is a graphic example. Think what Blake > would do in a similar situation - probably rush in like a bulldozer and > physically prevent the others from mistreating a prisoner. Blake symbolized > the powerful presence of morality in one's consciousness; "Mistreating a prisoner?" I'm always astounded when that bit of name calling in RUMOURS is presented as something so very nasty that it would have been unconscionable to allow it to continue. Given the far more serious crimes the rebels were guilty of, name calling ranks a mere "naughty" on my evil scale. As for Blake rushing in to stop it, I don't think the man who blew up the ship docking with the Ortega has any room to criticize. I would presume that most opponents of the rebels would choose "name calling" over "sticks and stones" any day. Carol

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Re: [B7L] decentring morality
by Alison Page 26 Sep '01

26 Sep '01

This is a very interesting chain of thought, Natasa. >Paul Darrow mentions >in an interview that he was told by the writers, 'We think now that Blake's >gone you ought to be a little more moral', which he obviously refused. LOL >B7 obviously toys with the 'uncertainty principle', probably not >because of any conscious interaction with deconstructionism, but simply >because they both reflect our age. I sometimes wonder to what extent the formal convolutions of B7, the kind of thing you mention in this post, were thought through at all, by anyone. It's not just reflecting the age, I don't think, because you wouldn't find it in any other show of the time. But I'm not suggesting anybody put it there on purpose either. Alison

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re: decentring morality
by Alison Page 26 Sep '01

26 Sep '01

Kathryn urged that we should continue to consider the role of the author DDJ replied - >> But this suggests that what the author intended the work to mean is the only possible meaning << It doesn't though does it? It simply means that we are free to discuss anything that interests us. The orthodoxy that the creator's intention has no provenance in the discussion of a work grew up in reaction to the somewhat philistine idea that only the creator's intention could be considered the 'truth' about a work. But like any orthodoxy it has become a strait-jacket., and should be cast off forthwith :-) >>I believe it was Katherine Paterson who mentioned that it wasn't until she was asked about the plot of one of her later works (#9 or #10 or thereabouts) that she suddenly realized she'd been writing the same core story time and again, even though the individual settings and circumstances varied widely. << A very interesting example, but one we would be prevented from discussing if we followed the prohibition on linking works with their authors. My reaction to the petty prohibitions of academics is 'I don't care'. 'Terry Nation intended Horizon as a critical commentary on British imperialism.' 'Literary criticism says we aren't allowed to discuss authorial intention' 'I don't care' Alison ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com **********************************************************************

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Strong Women Of TV and Film Convention
by Steve Rogerson 26 Sep '01

26 Sep '01

Just forwarding this on. I suggest we give them a few B7 suggestions. > On Mon, 24 Sep 2001 14:29:37 -0700, Sharon D.(outback(a)creationent.com) wrote: > > YOUR GUEST SUGGESTIONS WANTED! > > We are launching a series of events next year with the theme of STRONG > WOMEN OF TELEVISION AND FILM. Besides Xena guests, who would you like > to see? It can be old shows, shows already on the air or new shows > just starting. > > Let us know and thanks for your help. > > Sharon > Official Xena Fan Club -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption 03, 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent Celebrating 25 years of Blake's 7 and 10 years of Babylon 5 http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Fwd: Re: Re: FW: [B7L] Alma Mater
by Sally Manton 25 Sep '01

25 Sep '01

Natasa wrote: <It wasn't Ellynne, it was me, but in a Blakish manner, 'I forgive you'.> Oops, sorry :-) <Actually it's curious that B7 doesn't have a physician as a regular character and crew member. Last evening I watched an episode of 'Deep Space 9' and it occured to me that in Trek and its sequels there's always a physician playing a prominent role.> <grin> they could have had a doctor or nurse as one of the London prisoners, but I'm sure Vila or Avon would have wanted to make damn sure what he was convicted of before he got anywhere *their* precious persons ... Pity Renor didn't survive (he'd been quite fun once Jenna slapped him down a few hundred times) or better still (though rather late) Dr Bellfriar. Or maybe Jarriere was a cybersurgeon!!!! (close enough if you aren't in a position to be fussy?) We aren't given much idea what he does do, after all ... <Hence, on the 'material' level, B7 could use a regular doctor character to heal all the battle wounds. On the 'symbolical' level, however, there's no need for a doctor becuase Dr Blake tends to 'cure' the society in a bit more drastic way.> OTOH, they could use one for *him* - physically (being the hero, he gets dumped on rather more than the rest) or metaphorically as he is IMO clearly reaching the limits of his strength, and while Cally may be able to stand in for the former, none of the crew he has *can* fill the latter role. A situation copied and magnified with Avon in S4. Me: <OTOH, what with battle wounds, they've hopefully had a fair bit of practice in the mudical unit since Breakdown - there *is* a practical reason for all Avon's fanfictional Suffering, you know ...> and Natasa: You mean, he suffers additionally because they're clumsy and can't heal him properly? (No, I know it's not what you meant but it would be a nice piece of fanfic...)> Love the idea ... though he'd probably suffer quite sufficiently anyway; no matter who was trying to do the 'nursing', he'd probably find them intolerable (except maybe Cally, and possibly Soolin. If it were Gan, Vila or Tarrant, there'd be even more bloodshed. Theirs :-)) But - whether one likes it or not - part of Avon's raison d'etre in fanfic is to be the hurtee in hurt-comfort; 'tis nice to be able to claim that this would enable the rest to get lots of practice with the brand-new you-beaut where-the-hell-do-we-stick-this alien equipment. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Blakes7 September 2001