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5511 discussions

Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit
by Sally Manton 04 Aug '01

04 Aug '01

Dana wrote: <It's a cushion shot for Avon...he gets to make Vila feel better and Tarrant look worse.> <g> but to be fair (I'm not sure who to), it's more enjoyable because Tarrant is there to hear it and Vila isn't. Were it the other way round, IMO he'd be looking for something to make *Tarrant* look better and *Vila* worse (tell me again why we love him?). _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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RE: [B7L] Shadows of Blake
by Sally Manton 04 Aug '01

04 Aug '01

Louise wrote: <Anyone who thinks Boucher is God needs to see Star Cops. Which part of the world are you living in?> The Australian countryside. Until the last 10 or so years, there was a *lot* we didn't see, even B7 only got shown once that I recall :-( Actually, I'd call him a demi-god; he and Nation were of equal importance to my take on B7 (odd how the producer and directors never get mentioned :-) but let's cheer David Maloney, whose casting was *just* as important to a CJ like meself ...) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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RE: Re: [B7L] Shadows of Blake
by jacquispeel＠netscape.net 04 Aug '01

04 Aug '01

>Dana wrote: > ><Actually, it's the people of Lindor I'm worried about - we have no >canonical evidence that they want Sarkoff back. As I remarked on another >occasion, perhaps "Sarkoff" is Lindorian for "Bill Clinton."> <snip> I see Sarkoff more of an Alan Clark type Jacqui __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

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Star One
by jacquispeel＠netscape.net 04 Aug '01

04 Aug '01

There is a way in which Star One could have been provided with staff, equipment etc without it being 'discovered' to be such. If the complex were designated, and also served as, 'Hubble Intergalactic Observatory No 1' (or equivalent) supply ships could be sent regularly without anyone becoming suspicious as to why a base existed 'in the middle of nowhere.' This might also explain how the planet 'Horizon' was discovered - the Federation was looking for an intermediary stop, and the discovery of Monopasium 239 was a fortunate accident. Jacqui __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

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Gestalt
by Leia Fee 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Hmm If you mixed up all the crew you'd certainly have a very bothered person. Some of them ahve such completely opposite outlooks. As for myself I'm probably most like Vila - jumpy, babbling on, and I could sleep for Wales<grin> though I can be an Avon-like snitty techy when it's been one of those days... Leia

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Re: Sayings from the series
by Helen Krummenacker 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

The "Have you considered amputation?" line is one I bite back generally unless I know the person who's complaint I am responding to knows the series. "Cheers, ORAC" sometimes. "I'm tired and I hurt." altogether too frequently.

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Re: [B7L] Shadows of Blake
by Sally Manton 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Dana wrote: <Actually, it's the people of Lindor I'm worried about - we have no canonical evidence that they want Sarkoff back. As I remarked on another occasion, perhaps "Sarkoff" is Lindorian for "Bill Clinton."> And are you *so* sure that the USA wouldn't have voted Clinton in again had they had a choice? <veg> from the outside, it still looked like he was bloody popular ... But back to Lindor - no, it's not canon, but it's fairly heavily implied that he should have won the elections (why rig them otherwise?). And remember what the Lindor Strategy involved: "The Lindor Strategy. That's what they called it. It began with the rigged elections which removed you from power and will only end when you return to your planet as the puppet leader of a subjugated people." (Blake, Bounty) i e, he's going to be have go back *anyway*, if not now by Blake, later by the Federation. The 'peaceful retirement' is a myth, as is the idea that Sarkoff has a choice at all (rather nice point, that, echoing the other times in the series when supposed choices turned out to be ephemeral). The difference is that if he goes back now (it is again implied) enough people *will* rally around him to prevent the war and thereby remain out of Federation control (again i e, that the majority would want him back). If he doesn't go now, the Federation will take over Lindor, then return him at a more savage metaphorical gunpoint than Blake does. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Shadows of Blake
by Sally Manton 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Stephen wrote: <What amuses me about the little mutual deprecation society Avon and Part of the problem here - of Boucher's darker view of Blake and of people who try to do right - is that, while he only *wrote* 4 episodes with Blake in them, three of them are among the very very best in the series (and would be my choice *for* the best) - Shadow, Star One and Blake. The impact of these three tends to cast a greater shadow (pun not intended) than the actual wordage would justify. Notwithstanding that Chris Boucher is God <g> he's by no means a perfect one, and in his own way is as conventional as Terry Nation. The difference is in the conventions he follows - the (then new, by now a tad cliched) ones that the good guys are just as bad as the villains, there's no really any such thing as a hero, morality is *always* suspect and it's all doomed anyway. Life's a bitch and then you die. Boucher was very good at shades of muck, but what he *wasn't* good at - and tended to avoid - was actually writing about genuinely good people (this is not unusual, they are actually much much harder to write well). If you look at the episodes he wrote, there really are only three characters at the most whom I would call essentially good (by which I dont mean wholly). Hanna, the drug addict in Shadow. Rashell in Weapon (who I think is poorly written but well acted). Max in Deathwatch. The rest are all tending *very* much to the middling to bad range, or moral voids like Clonemaster Fen (or maybe not; for all the lofty words, what she has done is made a clone of a man - without his knowledge or agreement - for the use and abuse of his enemies. Hardly moral). Of the crew, only Gan comes out clean (and he just wasn't interested in Gan). Cally is self-rightous (Star One) and holier-than-thou (RoD), and Tarrant swings from a standard and quite appealing hero (Deathwatch) to a *complete* and remarkably stupid bastard (City) according to the needs of the story. He does wriggle out of trying to get inside Blake's head and give any idea of *why* Blake acts as he does, which would IMO enrich the moral complexity and alleviate the rather one-sidedness of both Shadow and Star One. He thought of, and thought he was writing, Avon as a psychopath. And the only member of the crew he *invented* was a woman who killed for money and didn't show any positive human qualities till near the end of the series. To be blunt, I don't think Boucher *was* interested in ambiguity (as it by definition must include the shades of light as well as dark) so much as the more dramatic qualities of the darker side. A Blake's 7 - and a Blake - that was wholly his creation would have been no more rounded and complex than one that was entirely Terry Nation's. It's the tension arising from his darker overlay *onto* Nation's lighter, more 'heroic' origins that overcomes the cliches of both and gives B7 its unique flavour. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: Orbit
by Betty Ragan 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Responding to me, Helen Krummenacker wrote: > > And seems to get *far* less than his share of the blame, IMO... > > "Him"? I thought ORAC was generally called "it". I assume ORAC was the > one being referred to as coming out of it the same. Yes, I was referring to Orac there... And, actually, the crew are pretty inconsistent about which pronoun they use with Orac. Avon always sticks to "it" for all of the computers (although it's possible that even he slips at some point or other), but the others often use "he," particularly Vila. I have a vague memory of *somebody* actually using two different pronouns for Orac in the same sentence, but I may have invented that in my head. (Hmm, obviously this is a question which merits considerable research. Which I am, I must admit, far too lazy to do.) Personally, I generally use "he" or "she" to refer to anything sentient/sapient (which Orac, IMO, certainly is). So it'd annoy Avon. What do I care? :) > And I think ORAC is > always accredited with a fair amount of blame. Avon seems to get the bulk of it, though. "How could he do such a thing!" and so on. It often seems to me (in fanfics and so forth, anyway) that people tend to overlook the fact that it was all *Orac's* idea... -- Betty Ragan ** ragan(a)sdc.org ** http://www.sdc.org/~ragan/ Dr. Hibbert: "You need some friends that aren't printed on paper." Comic Book Guy: "You mean action figures?" -- _The Simpsons_

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Re: [B7L] Gshault
by Sally Manton 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Iain wrote: <I have: Vila's sobriety Avon's empathy Blake's caution Orac's patience> My sorta man :-) And the sex appeal of ...? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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