Blakes7

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

5511 discussions

Re: [B7L] Episode review - space fall
by Jenny Kaye 17 May '01

17 May '01

Dana Shilling wrote > >Jenny Kaye said: > > > It is a ship of serial rapists, murderers, paedophiles etc. This is the > > > last stop for them. Many of them would have personality disorders. > > > >What evidence do you have for this? They are being sent to Cygnus Alpha. Professor Kayn states that if Gan hadn't been fitted with a limiter he would have been executed. There is not capital punishment for murder in the Federation (see debate), therefore Cygnus Alpha becomes the dumping ground. > >Blake is a convicted child molester, There you go! > >but according to canon the only criminal records stated are: > >1. Vila--recidivist thief (although what he's actually shown doing in > >subsequent episodes is more like safecracking, which is a specialist > >skill) Vila says that he's had his head adjusted by the best in the business but that it just won't stay adjusted. They are now fed up with him. Off to Cygnus Alpha he goes. Jenna says to Blake in the TWB,"If you are expecting a last minute reprieve, forget it. Once they get you this far there's no going back." > >2. Avon--bank fraud (possibly though not certainly embezzlement, > >which requires abuse of a fiduciary capacity) There's more to Avon than that. As we go through the episodes you'll see. > >3. Jenna--"free trading." It doesn't sound serious enough to merit > >lifetime exile, but the Federation seems more like the kind of place > >to heavily punish relatively trivial crimes than to spare the lives of > >murderers. And, after all, 18th and 19th century Britain did > >sentence people to transportation for long periods or for life even > >for trivial property crimes. Jenna has been set up by the Terra Nostra. > >4. Gan--manslaughter, with the aggravating factor of killing a law > >enforcement agent. Canon doesn't say that he killed anyone else > >(or any female) before the series starts. Gan kills. He enjoys it. Women especially. It's there. > >As has often been remarked, it is never stated what Nova has been > >convicted of (much less whether he did it or not). We don't know much about Nova. But he associates with Vila and his name is the reverse of "Avon". I'd say he's a small time thief like Vila. Nor is it stated > >what Salman and Arco were convicted of It was originally planned that both Salman and Arco would join the crew of the Liberator. Then Nation changed his mind. When we get to the episode Cygnus Alpha, we can see what the subtext says about them. --or even the names of any > >of the other prisoners (the ones who died on the London or the ones > >who stayed behind on Cygnus Alpha). They are just extras. > >There aren't any canonical lines like "Jenna, watch out for Muggles, > >he's a rapist" or "It's too bad that a poor little pickpocket like me gets > >stuck here with a bunch of Broadmoor cases." That's because the writers of B7 want us to think. > >PS--judging by the expression on her face, I suspect that what Jenna > >said to Raiker is a reversal of Blackadder's immortal insult--something > >about having wedding tackle the size of a weasel's brain. If a pro keeps it simple, she would have said, "Fuck off dickhead"! :-) Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

1 0

Re: style vs. content.
by Helen Krummenacker 17 May '01

17 May '01

> Not speaking for Leia, but in my opinion the style of your posts is the most > offensive and arrogant I have ever seen on this list, and that's saying something > given the number of years I've been here. > > -- > cheers > Steve Rogerson > I thought Superstud was more offensive, but there was the advantage that his posts generated a lot of humour. On second thought, in his case, I think it was the content rather than the style that created trouble.

2 1

Re: [B7L] the limits of parody
by Jenny Kaye 17 May '01

17 May '01

"Neil Faulkner" wrote > >From: Jenny Kaye > > > Examining the scripts for B7, it is quite clear that the show had really > > > been written for a much later time slot. > > > >As I understand, it was envisaged from the start (by the BBC,at least, > >perhaps not Nation) as a replacement for Softly Softly, a show which from the (very) > >little I recall of it made Juliet Bravo look like cutting edge police > >drama. It means that it replaced the programme, in that Softly, Softly was scrapped and B7 took its place in production. It had the same budget as Softly,Softly, (which was stupid!) but that doesn't mean it was going to go out in the same time slot. Anyone out there actually know what time slot Softly, Softly used to be shown in? Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

1 0

Re: [B7L] the limits of parody
by Jenny Kaye 17 May '01

17 May '01

Bizarro7(a)aol.com wrote: >Deja vu. > >Welcome back, Shane. How are things over at Zenith? When animal camouflage breaks down. Now who's the hunter on here? Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

1 0

Debate
by Tigerm1019＠aol.com 17 May '01

17 May '01

I may regret this, but... I think there are several people here who might benefit from reading this excellent essay on Jeffersonian debate, 'The Mannerly Art of Disagreement,' by Macedon. http://members.aol.com/MacedonPg/tmaod.htm And yes, I'm aware that now everyone is going to eat me alive, but I've seen a *lot* of behavior from people that I respect this spring that I find very disturbing. Usually it isn't *what* people say that annoys or angers me, but *how* they say it. I could make a big long post on this subject, but Macedon does it better than I ever could in his essay. Tiger M

6 8

Re: [B7L] We can't *all* be geniuses
by Jenny Kaye 17 May '01

17 May '01

Steve Kilbane wrote > > > Steve Kilbane wrote > > > > > > > >Me, then Jenny. > > > > > > That > > > > > > > >makes "correct" something that can be difficult to pin down. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not at all. B7 was production line TV not a film. In a lot of > >films > > > > >things > > > > > > are changed all the time. Why do you think Live and Let Die is so > >full > > > > >of > > > > > > holes? But not in TV. You compare an original script with the > >version > > > > >you > > > > > > see on TV and the changes will be minimal. > > > > > > > > > >You've just agreed that that the product process has an effect, and > >that > > > > >the writer's vision isn't the only one. > > > > > > Only in your head Steve. > > > >And in your words quoted above, where you admit there will be change in > >the process of producing a TV programme. A minimal change. Read it again. > > > The way an actor says something, the way a director > > > wants them to say it, the visual design all have an effect, but they > >don't > > > change the script. > > > >But they can change the meaning of it. The script might say "I agree", > >but whether the actor says it in a sincere or sarcastic tone affects the > >meaning of the word, as presented to the viewer. If the director doesn't like how the actor does it, s/he will ask the actor to redo the scene. The director tells the actor how to do it, and puts the audience right. And if the director doesn't then the context of the scene, if it is an important point, will put the audience right. Who will then think, "What a lousy actor..." > > > Therefore what the writer says goes. > > > >And what the actor says, goes out. Um. This is an actors' beef. They like to think that they have some control. Some directors treat actors like puppets and actors don't like that. So the viewer is free to interpret > >the actor's presentation, or the dry words of the script (which may > >convey no tone at all in direction, hence being even more ambiguous). > > > > > Which means you've got at least > > > > >two versions of correct > > > > > > No. You have one version of correct. > > > >1. Script. > >2. Actor's intonation. > > > >Generally speaking, accepted values of 1 do not equal accepted values > >of 2. > > > > > He may emphasise the line in a particular way. This does not modify the > > > line. > > > >It can modify the meaning of the line. That's what actors are paid to > >do. Otherwise, it's cheaper to not employ them at all, and just display > >the script on the screen. > > > > > to paraphrase you, one changes > > > > >a lot, while the other changes a little. > > > > > > Scriptwise. > > > > > So they both involve change. So > > > > >there are multiple viewpoints to start from. > > > > > > Wrong again Steve. > > > >That's two cases, in one post, where you've agreed with me, Wrong again Steve. > >but still said I'm wrong. You are wrong. > >Just so you know. I do know. You're wrong. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

1 0

Re: [B7L] Re: Space Fall
by Jenny Kaye 17 May '01

17 May '01

Tavia wrote: > >Avon -- Nova. > >I'm surprised no-one's yet brought this one up. Personally I reckon it's > >possible it's just coincidence (I managed to write simultaneously a B7 > >story involving a woman named Lexa and a non-B7 story involving one in a > >similar role called Alex without noticing the similarity of name). Is Nova > >intended to symbolise the light side of Avon, or something? I think he's meant to be an opposite, yes. > >Time and chance happen to them all. > >The deaths of Nova and Raiker suggest that this is not going to be a > >simplistic series, where either good or evil triumphs in every episode. The > >Liberator conveniently turning up like that can only be put down to luck. Interesting isn't it? There are two takes. The first is that many rebels have been transported and this is the story about one who got a ship. Or secondly, you take The Logic of Empire view that Blake has been set up by the Federation to escape. That the Federation wants, in fact *needs* an enemy, and Blake has been set up to fulfil that role. > >The role of women. > >I'm quite surprised that there are no special provisions for female > >prisoners. Are there usually no women transported? I've covered this in my Leylan/Raiker analysis, but basically the London is carrying a cargo of very dangerous prisoners. Women don't usually get done for rape and serial killing. It happens, but not often. And there are provisions for female prisoners. Raiker's bed. > >The Liberator as a 'magic' object. > >I've mentioned this before in context of B7 as science fiction vs fantasy, > >but it's my contention that the Liberator bears more resemblance to the > >magic object of fantasy than the logical object of science fiction. You are right. It does. It > >turns up when required, obeys the command of the hero alone (Blake being > >able to counter the defence device), is first described as 'fantastic', > >'unbelievable', 'strange' and 'beautiful' (twice), and confers almost > >supernatural powers (a ship like this could go anywhere). Yes, you are right. Excellent email. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

1 0

Re: [B7L] Message style
by Jenny Kaye 17 May '01

17 May '01

Steve Rogerson wrote: > >Jenny said in response to Leia: "Ah, right here we have the tried and > >tested formula of attacking the style not the content." > > > >Not speaking for Leia, But adopting exactly the same strategy I note. Timing's interesting too... but in my opinion the style of your posts is the > >mostoffensive and arrogant I have ever seen on this list, and that's saying > >something > >given the number of years I've been here. Groovy. One tries to do ones best. You're just mad that I said Jenna wasn't a lesbian, aren't you? Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

1 0

Re: [B7L] the limits of parody
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 17 May '01

17 May '01

Deja vu. Welcome back, Shane. How are things over at Zenith?

1 0

Re: [B7L] Debate and Dead Horses
by Jenny Kaye 17 May '01

17 May '01

Leia Fee writes: > > >I think you've actually been on this lyst before. > > > >Now I'm completely baffled. What's new? > > > > >I note that you don't state which ones, and also use the word > > >"interesting" not the word "convincing", or the word "compelling". > > > >Exactly. > > > > >what you are doing is trying to extract yourself from a debate which > > >you know you can not win. > > > >Again quite right. For me this is not a contest. > > > > >I'll tell you something else this email reveals. You are a long term B7 > > >fan. > > > >Hence my participation in a B7 mailing list perchance? Could be! A pro keeps it simple. > > >And you've either been directly in contact with other fans or you have > > >been on this lyst before. I think it's both. > > > >If anyone can explain what Jenny is getting at here I'd love to know. It means that you are of the same mindset as quite a number of other people on here. Congratulations! > > I am quite baffled. You don't have to keep telling me that. I know. > > > >I know some B7 fans on Compuserve, I went to Redemption to play with > >them... I found this list through a link from the Redemption website to > >Judith's page after someone, I forget who, mentioned it's existence to me > >at Redemption. There you go then. > > > >Jenny if by disagreeing with you and wanting to acknowledge that we have > >irreconcilable viewpoints Why irreconcilable, aren't you willing to be convinced? > >I have somehow offended you further I apologise Thank you. > >but I assure you there's no more to it than that. Never said there was. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

1 0

Jump to page:

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

Blakes7