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5511 discussions

Re: [B7L] Chris Boucher
by Jenny Kaye 01 May '01

01 May '01

Judith Proctor wrote: > >for those who don't know, Chris was the script editor on Blake's 7 and > >also wrote many of my favourite episodes such as Rumours of Death. Thanks for that Judith, though I think it's also best to add that for those who don't know, Blake's 7 was a British science fiction drama series that ran from 1978 to 1981. Some of you might have seen it, or even possess the odd episode on video. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: If you could change ...
by Sally Manton 01 May '01

01 May '01

Una wrote: <Or I'd change 'The Web': I'd burn all copies of it and then jump up and down on the still smouldering ashes.> Oh but Una, my friend, my dear dear friend, you'd clip out the good A-B bits for Judith and me first, wouldn't you? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: If you could change
by Sally Manton 30 Apr '01

30 Apr '01

Una wrote: <The only bit about 'Sarcophagus' that drives me insane is, as I said in a post the other day, that bloody line about being beautiful <throw> > You definitely have a point about that line (actually, thinking about the Tarrant/Servalan dialogue in Sand, I start to wonder if Tanith Lee was a secret bodice-ripper addict???). A *lot* of episodes have one or two 'how *did* they say that with a straight face' lines (am thinking of Orac - Blake and the obelisk - for a start). The bit I do like best about Sarcophagus is Vila's shadowy 'magic show' in the middle - it could be so *dreadfully* twee in the wrong hands, and Michael Keating carries it off wonderfully, right to the curling up at the end. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Sand (was: If you could change)
by Marian de Haan 30 Apr '01

30 Apr '01

Una wrote: >Tanja wrote: >> the fantasy fan in me has no problem with both the resurrected Alien and the conscious sand. > >No, I never had a problem with either of these, possibly because I was so young when I watched them. Vampire sand is a perfectly reasonable proposition when you're nine.< I have no problem with the sand. It's Servalan getting soppy that makes my suspension of disbelieve snap. Marian

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Re: [B7L] Captain Vila
by Jenny Kaye 30 Apr '01

30 Apr '01

Mistral wrote: > > > Do you think it could be because Vila is talking crap? > > > >Actually, you're making an assumption that Vila was trying to distract > >Avon, > >and so your question is inherently biased. > >I don't agree with that > >assumption; I simply think he was breaking off a tangential discussion > >that was going away from what he really wanted to talk about How can you possibly say that you know what he "really" wanted to talk about? All you can go by is what's on the screen. - his > >unease about what was going on down on Obsidian. If that's true then why doesn't he say that? "Avon, what really *is* worrying me is not knowing what's happening on the surface of Obsidian," but no, instead he mounts a personal attack on Tarrant. Why? Because he knows that there is friction between Tarrant and Avon and that to his mind bringing it up is the best way to head off the conversation. Like in Orbit, when Vila tries to hide his cowardice by saying that Avon needs to take someone else down to Egrorian's base, because he will need Vila on the ship to keep a keen eye on Tarrant. You don't really think Avon's response --"If I didn't know you better, I'd say you were trying to get out of this," is serious, surely? As you've pointed out > >yourself in a later portion of your post: > > > > > The scene in Volcano continues with Cally saying, "And what about Dayna? > > > Don't you trust her either?" Vila responds by manufacturing an air of > > > contrived nonchalance and saying, "Danya's a different case entirely." > > > >Vila tends to acquire an air of faux innocence when he's lying. No. Only when cornered. > >He didn't have it when he was making the remarks about testing No, because he hadn't been caught out at that point! - he was irritated and plunged straight in, without thinking about what he was > >saying; > >this supports the idea that this portion of his remarks were > >based on truth. No, this supports the idea as to why this portion of his remarks are muddled. > >The specific reference to Space Captains was IMO likely > >an exaggeration, due to having issues with upper grades generally and > >(as Sally mentioned) Tarrant specifically. I'm with you on that, but if he's lying here, why believe anything else he says in the rest of the scene? > >My thought is that he could certainly have tested into a slightly higher > >grade, I think that's right as well, but the problem is someone who is an inveterate liar and a thief isn't someone you would want to employ in a sensitive area, or indeed anywhere. > >but didn't want the regimentation and responsibility (i.e., a > >job) that would come with it. I don't know, a cushy office job is a damn sight safer than being a thief. > >Vila likes being a thief; he's good at it. Yes, but he also likes the idea of being rich, and getting a cushy job is the faster and less strenuous way to get money than stealing. Although if you can combine the two (perhaps with a job in the civil service)... > >He'd prefer to remain a Delta, and therefore invisible. Well he wasn't invisible though, was he? He spent time on a penal planet when in his youth. He had his head "adjusted by the best in the business" on a number of occasions, and eventually he was arrested and sent to Cygnus Alpha for life. > > > Vila a Space Captain? He wouldn't pass the psychological tests let alone > >be > > > entered for "The Space Captains' exam" even if such a test existed. > > > >The tests must exist, or Avon would have called him on that immediately. The test may exist, but you don't just suddenly take an exam out of the blue and then you're a Space Captain. As indicated in Games you have to train to be one, and you've got to actually get accepted into the armed services first, which must also involve exams of some type. So yes, the test must exist, but not in the way Vila is describing. > >A lie isn't much good when the liar knows the lie-ee has all the same > >information that he does. Well, that hasn't stopped Vila before now. See Orbit, see Shadow, see Hostage etc. > > > As Avon confirmed, "A pro keeps it simple." Vila is a liar. And you > >can't get simpler than that! > > > >??? Avon was restating someone else's position when he was conjecturing > >what that person might do. And in so doing was recognising the fact that said person was a pro and therefore would keep it simple. > > That's not the same thing as confirming it. Er... Yes it is. Avon recognises the fact that a pro keeps it simple. Remember, Avon employed a similar strategy himself in Mission to Destiny. Everyone kept coming up with complicated reasons, but Avon kept it simple and therefore found the traitor. > >Afew lines later he mocks that position when he says 'Your professional > >simplicity is beginning to irritate me.' He isn't mocking the position, just expressing annoyance that such a simple position is difficult to overcome. > >Quite apart from which, professional simplicity surely shouldn't include > >ignoring relevant data, such as the fact that Vila isn't always or even > >mostly lying; No, but they should look at what's going on in the scene, then judge Vila on past experience, perhaps even test it against previous statements from him, and then come to a conclusion. Which is exactly what Avon and Cally do. They come to the conclusion that Vila was talking crap, and I agree with them. therefore it's not logical to assume that he is, without > >evidence of such. It's not an assumption. The info is there in the scene. Vila is lying. It is not however, logical for you to come up with a complex and tortured explanation as to why Vila could be telling the truth, when you acknowledged that during that short scene, Vila *does* lie on at least two occasions. Next minute you'll be saying, "But he's got such an honest face!" Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: If you could change
by Marian de Haan 30 Apr '01

30 Apr '01

Steve Rogerson wrote: >Tanith scored 50 per cent, in that Sand was a good episode but Sarcophagus was crap. However, I also note that some people have that the other way round. Puzzled.< Definitely the other way round for me :-) Marian

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Re: [B7L] Chris Boucher
by Jenny Kaye 30 Apr '01

30 Apr '01

Stephen Date wrote: >Jenny Kaye wrote: > > > > > > Okay. Blake's 7 was a television programme that > > > appeared in the United > > > Kingdom (an island in Europe). <snip> > > > >Whew ! Thanks for that. Now who was that bloke with > >the long scarf and the robot dog ? That was a man called Doctor Who. He built that dog together with a time travelling machine call Tardis in his back yard. He then travelled the universe with his granddaughter Susie Forman and Roy Castle. Susie Forman eventually married Roy Castle and left to spend time on the dole. Doctor Who ran for 76 years. The actor to first play the part was Charlie Chaplin, who based his look and performance on Adolf Hitler. After the war he became known as the forgotten Doctor Who, as many of his stories were wiped by the race relations board. One story still remains however, and that was written by our very own Blake's 7 creator Terry Watson. The story concerns the plight of a group of Arian supermen who has been unfairly treated by some other people in wheelchairs. This story has been released at various times on video, and still no one has ever bought a copy. 65 actors have played Doctor Who. None of them looked the same. This is called bad continuity. Tom Baker did look a bit like Jon Pertwee, but only in that they were about the same height, had permed hair and big noses. Colin Baker also tried to look like Tom, but although he was the right height and again had bushy hair, he had a big stomach instead of a big nose. Only one Doctor Who wore a scarf and that was Lalla Ward. Also it wasn't actually a scarf, but the shed skin of a huge stripy snake called Hector. The metal dog you refer to was called Labrador 1 and appeared in many of Doctor Who's wonderful adventures, until, that is, he got stuffed and mounted by Jon Pertwee. Sarah Jane Smith then became Doctor Who's new companion, and she also got stuffed and mounted by Jon Pertwee, and then later Tom Baker. Peter Davison is the fans' favourite Doctor Who even though he hated the show, preferring to appear on other programmes in which he could stick his hands up cows (one was named Tegan). Doctor Who ended in 1989 after a slow and painful death. > >Incidentally I'm sure I speak for others on the list > >when I observe how disappointed I am that not once did > >penguins appear in your otherwise thorough precis. Penguins never appeared in Blake's 7 but the 45th Doctor Who did have a pet penguin called Roadkill. He was a master of disguise and often pretended to be Bonnie Langford, or sometimes Kate O'Mara pretending to be Bonnie Langford. Eventually Roadkill the penguin left the series to pursue other interests, mainly living on a huge ranch with Neil Falkner on the Falkland Islands, which was named after him. I hope this information is of some use. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Captain Vila (part 1)
by Jenny Kaye 30 Apr '01

30 Apr '01

Carol Mc wrote: > >Sally and Mistral: > > > > > > BTW - has anyone any ideas *on* what Avon and Cally's little > >conversation > > > > meant? Why didn't Avon mention the signal from the ground? And while > >we're > > > > at it, why send the crew babies on this one? > > > > > > Those are related, IMO, and it's sheer pragmatism on Avon's part. > > > Tarrant and Dayna haven't proven their worth or their trustworthiness > >to > > > Avon's satisfaction, so he's more willing to risk them than Cally and > > > Vila at this point. > > >That doesn't feel right to me. My take on it is that Avon didn't assign > >anyone to the mission. Tarrant and Dayna volunteered to go; Watching it back, yes, it's pretty clear they did. >they also > >might have been the ones who conceived the mission. Avon wasn't assuming a leadership role at this point; he seemed reluctant to order the crew about. I think it was less that he was "reluctant to" and more of that he "wasn't in the position to". > >Which we see later in the episode when he told Dayna and Tarrant about > >Cally and Orac but left it up to them to decide what they wanted to do. Yes, but he also tells Tarrant that if he isn't back in one hour, then he's going to leave them all down there and fly off with Liberator. > > Per what we see throughout early third season, Tarrant was the one who typically > >made decisions and tried to fill the vacancy in the leadership position. > >He continued to do that until Avon accepted that responsibility. This makes it sound as if Avon was a reluctant leader. Avon stated on a number of occasions that he wanted the Liberator (Pressure Point, Killer, Star One, Power Play...), It's just that Tarrant stood in his way. This is still the situation until Ultraworld, however, during the last few episodes of that series there is a perceptible change, as Tarrant and the others start to accept Avon as leader. There's no > >reason to think that Tarrant didn't make the decision about Obsidian. > > > >Also, let's not forget that Dayna's father knew Hower. Which is a good > >reason for her to go. Both true. > >The theory that Avon's more willing to risk them than Cally and Vila seems > >at odds with the fact that Avon risked himself to check up on Tarrant and > >Dayna. but didn't do the same for Cally. Ah, but the situations are different here, in that Avon's visit to the surface of Obsidian is ostensibly to do a bit of reconnaisance. When he discovers that the Federation are there however, he soon gives up his search and comes back. He doesn't go after Cally because firstly he's got repairs to do to the ship, and secondly he knows that she had been captured by a Federation commando unit. If Tarrant and Dayna want to get their heads shot off trying to rescue her, then, they can; he, however, is going to stay on the ship, and fly off if they aren't back in an hour. > >I always thought that Avon was most > >protective of Dayna over other members of the crew. Is that why he sent her into a trap in Stardrive? Is that why he didn't even blink when she was gunned down on Gauda Prime? > > He might have felt more responsibility for her since his presence on Sarran contributed to her > >ending up with the crew. Now why would he do that :-)? Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Captain Vila (part 1)
by Mac4781＠aol.com 30 Apr '01

30 Apr '01

Sally and Mistral: > > BTW - has anyone any ideas *on* what Avon and Cally's little conversation > > meant? Why didn't Avon mention the signal from the ground? And while we're > > at it, why send the crew babies on this one? > > Those are related, IMO, and it's sheer pragmatism on Avon's part. > Tarrant and Dayna haven't proven their worth or their trustworthiness to > Avon's satisfaction, so he's more willing to risk them than Cally and > Vila at this point. That doesn't feel right to me. My take on it is that Avon didn't assign anyone to the mission. Tarrant and Dayna volunteered to go; they also might have been the ones who conceived the mission. Avon wasn't assuming a leadership role at this point; he seemed reluctant to order the crew about. Which we see later in the episode when he told Dayna and Tarrant about Cally and Orac but left it up to them to decide what they wanted to do. Per what we see throughout early third season, Tarrant was the one who typically made decisions and tried to fill the vacancy in the leadership position. He continued to do that until Avon accepted that responsibility. There's no reason to think that Tarrant didn't make the decision about Obsidian. Also, let's not forget that Dayna's father knew Hower. Which is a good reason for her to go. The theory that Avon's more willing to risk them than Cally and Vila seems at odds with the fact that Avon risked himself to check up on Tarrant and Dayna but didn't do the same for Cally. I always thought that Avon was most protective of Dayna over other members of the crew. He might have felt more responsibility for her since his presence on Sarran contributed to her ending up with the crew. Sally and Marian: > and they would at > least recognise Blake if they fell over him (unlike Tarrant, who never got > up the curiosity to look up a picture of the man who ran the ship for two > years and whose name still influences them, or even to look up some old log > files ...)< > > In Powerplay Tarrant tells Avon: "You weren't Blake, I would have recognised > him." So he did know what Blake looked like. Even with the physical changes I think Tarrant knew Blake in BLAKE fairly early on. But with the testing and the bounty hunter warning he was cautiously keeping that information to himself. He's prepared to tell Deva who Blake is after Blake pulled the gun on him; there was no reason to be cautious about Blake's identity at that point. That Tarrant asked Avon and Vila to confirm his identification of Blake indicates to me that he was hoping he was wrong. He didn't want *that* man to be Blake. Carol Mc

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Re: If you could change ...
by Tavia 30 Apr '01

30 Apr '01

Sally asked: >If you could change just three things about the series >- with no restrictions on cast, budget, scripting etc - >what would they be? (Obviously, *my* first would >be "don't let Blake go.") (1) I think Una's suggestion for season 3 of jointly following the progress of the Liberator and Blake as he progresses towards revolution on Earth would be wonderful. I'd add the suggestion that perhaps Blake could take Cally in this arm, while Avon retained Jenna. I'd love to see the power struggle between Avon and Jenna, without Blake there for Jenna to act nice around.... (2) In this scenario, Tarrant the naive young pilot would be superfluous, so perhaps we could have the older combat-experienced Tarrant that the scripts promised? The hard-wearing nature of SP's looks suggest that he needn't necessarily look any less pretty... (3) And I'd like to see more of what life in Federation cities was like. >If you could change just three episodes, >which are they and how would you do it? *RoD -- recast Anna Grant *Children of Auron -- alien society *The Keeper -- on reflection, I think this is the one I'd be burning vidtape of... Tavia (sorry this isn't very exciting but feeling very tired....)

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