Blakes7

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5511 discussions

Re: [B7L] Captain Vila (long)
by Jenny Kaye 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

Sally wrote: > >Jenny Kaye wrote: > ><The scene is demonstrating that Vila is: > >1/ Shallow > >2/ A braggart > >3/ An untrustworthy liar > >4/ Self deluding > >5/ Incapable of forward planning > >6/ Stupid, in that he greatly underestimates the intelligence of the people > >he is talking to. Even though he has known these people for a very long > >time.> >Let me guess, he's not your favourite character. No, I rather like him-- I'd rate him as perhaps my third favourite character :-). >Vila's background is as fluid as his mind is, of course. In 'Horizon', > >when Avon calls him "a fifth-grade ignorant", his answer is "I chose the wrong > >parents, didn't I?" - nothing about cheating one way or the other on the > >tests (interesting that he doesn't call Avon on that incorrect ranking > >either). Didn't think of that one, you're absolutely right. It's interesting, isn't it? The fact that he doesn't "correct" Avon on the ranking strongly indicates that it wasn't incorrect at all... In 'Shadow' he says to Cally that he grew up 'among the Delta > >service grades' Again, good point-- 'among' doesn't necessarily means he was one. and was in the Juvenile Detention Wards at a very young age > >("since I was old enough to read the graffiti'); So he was certainly a crook in his teens. in 'Power' he mentions to > >Pella that he was "technical advisor for the escape" at the 'academy' of > >CF-1; Well, obviously "academy" is a euphemism for something else :-). in 'Stardrive' he says he was sent to a penal colony (possibly Cf-1) > >at age 14. In 'The Way Back' he says to Blake that he's had his head > >adjusted 'by some of the best in the business'. You've done your research, haven't you :-)? > >Of course, this interesting history would make perfectly good reasons for > >being deprived of the Dreaded Captaincy, without bringing in anything about > >the tests. Very true! In fact, he's disarmingly honest about the shadier part of his > >history (always assuming he's telling the truth about *them* :-). He's not > >in the slightest bit ashamed on his Delta rank Well, first of all, we don't know for certain that he was a Delta rank, only a 5th Grade ignorant, (though it's very possible that, as Dana suggests, Alphas, Betas etc, are subdivided into further Grades). We also know that in Volcano Vila states that his classification was Grade 4 ignorant (a subtle increase on the Grade mentioned in Horizon that Vila manages to slip in) and then tries to justify that by saying he bribed a friend at the test centre to mark him down. So there are two examples of him being dishonest about his history for a start. And then you can add a third when he tells Pella he was at an "Academy" and the fourth in Horizon when he blames his Grade 5 classification on his parents. So really it isn't at all accurate to say that Vila wasn't in some way ashamed (or at least trying to play down) his past, or he'd've been straight about it, wouldn't he? - of all the crew, he's the > >most open and talkative *about* it Can't argue there :-). - nor does he seem to think it makes him > >inferior to the others (he does sometimes feel that way, I think, but due > >to very different reasons). I don't agree. Why tell all these lies if he didn't want to "adjust" his history to every situation he found himself in? So empty 'bragging' about a higher rank seems > >pointless, even for him. It's pointless, but as you've just demonstrated, he's done it on at least three occasions. > >So yes, there's a decent case to be argue that he was simply making it up > >as he went along. The problem is that one thing Vila says here is absolutely true. He is > >*not* stupid, but actually quite bright in his own way, as he clearly > >demonstrates in other episodes (sometimes pulling the possibly-Alphas' butts out of > >strife, when he absolutely *has* to). Yes, but there are different types of stupidity, isn't there? In the same way that there are different types of intelligence. Haven't you ever wondered how a particular friend can be so bright somethings, and yet utterly stupid when it comes to something else? Vila's good at hoodwinking the unwary, but then he would have to be, to be a good thief. Vila also uses language well, it's even possible that the accent he has when meeting Blake is one he had just put on, so as to appeal to Blake's Alpha Grade sensibilities. Vila is also good at opening locks, and this total paranoia means that he is sometimes right about approaching, or potential dangers. His cowardice also is an aid when in a sticky situation, in that it appears to concentrate his mind and provide the adrenaline rush that allows him to think straight. He's somewhat scatterbrained IMO, > >definitely *not* an intellectual, and as lazy mentally as physically, I think you're right. > >but he can be very quick and flexible (which is why he's Avon's second-favourite > >sparring partner, after all; *were* he stupid or slow, Avon wouldn't waste > >his breath). Again, Vila isn't slow, but he can be really stupid sometimes. Remember his dropping that gun in Space Fall? > >'Weapon', which is the episode that gives us most information - little > >though that is - on the grading system, and the reason I have real problems > >slotting Vila into Delta-by-rank. But he may not be. He could be a 5th Grade Beta. All we know is that he's a 5th Grader. He may have spent time with the Delta service grades because they were easier to steal from. We just don't know. Goodness, Coser is a *Beta*, and from the > >way Servalan and Travis - and even Blake - talk, you'd think that was only > >for the terminally slow and thick I don't really follow this bit. Servalan, Blake and Travis are all very intelligent, but all in different ways. They may all be Alphas but that doesn't mean that they all think alike. They are people, not sausages :-). - "this man Coser is brighter than his > >grade classification would suggest". He was. And that's what pissed Coser off. > >Also, the clear implication is that > >Beta grades are considered and treated as *very* inferior to Alphas runs > >all the way through the episode I think what we are actually seeing is the Beta Grade from the perspective of Coser, who is quite clearly vengeful, and not just a little bit mad. He seems like somebody who is, say, lower-middle-class and aspiring to be upper-middle-class-- and so sees everything in the most negative light possible. (actually, it's a pity that the writer made > >Coser a Beta, No. It's the entire point of the story-- where's his motivation otherwise :-)? as the attitudes in this episode to this secondary rank make > >it that much harder to judge where the rest of the crew might be; they can't*all* be Alphas!!) We are never told what they are IIRC. > >Which begs the question of how someone as bright as Vila unquestionably > >*is*ended up in the service grades that are lower even than Coser. I don't think so. Again, from the info you have provided, we don't now know that Vila was indeed a service Grade himself. And again, although Vila can be bright at some things, there's a difference between being bright and being bright enough to build a weapon as sophisticated and intelligent as IMIPAK. Coser is very interesting actually, in that he rails against the Grade classification system, yet treats Rashel like dirt. > >(It also>indicates - rather strongly - that being a Beta grade is both restrictive > >and horrible; Well, Coser sees it that way, but then Coser seems a complete egocentric bastard. > >if someone like Vila found himself headed in that direction I > >can see him doing anything to avoid it. Yes, but until he had actually experienced such a thing, how could he know what it was all about? Also, any prejudice from Alpha grades for Betas must be lightweight compared to the prejudice he would feel as a Delta. > >Unquestionably, he was having a dig at Tarrant, who at > >this stage is quite likely irritating the living daylights out of him. We don't know what the relationship between Tarrant and Vila is at this stage. Yes, he's having a dig at Tarrant, but I think it's to distract Avon. > ><As Avon confirmed, "A pro keeps it simple."> > > > >Sorry, ma'am, but I'm still an amateur at 'Playing the Game' so I don't > >have> >to do what Avon says if it don't make sense to me ... Simplicity always make sense, it's overcomplex and spurious reasoning that marks out the amateur. Jenny. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Who's Who in the Federation?
by Dana Shilling 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

It would be interesting to see the questionnaires for Who's Who (or What's What, if AIs are included) in the Federation/Rebellion, bearing in mind the salient fact that the entries are compiled by their subjects. -(Y)

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Re: [B7L] How do people watch B7?
by Sally Manton 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

Me: <And Justin is *much* easier to take if his lines are by Edward Lear instead of Allan Prior ...> and Una: <Or bits of the Goon Show.> <grin> "you rotten swine, you deaded me!" ... or is that the last line of the long-lost original script for 'Blake'? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: If you could change ...
by Sally Manton 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

After I wrote re The Web: <Oh but Una, my friend, my dear dear friend, you'd clip out the good A-B bits for Judith and me first, wouldn't you?> She replied: <What's your best offer?> <pained look> One would have thought one's friendship was worth a measly few bits of video ... no? Oh well ... I'll promise to keep my destructive mitts off 'Deathwatch' and 'Rumours' for you, no matter *what* the temptation ...? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Captain Vila (part 1)
by Sally Manton 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

Carol wrote: Carol wrote: <I always thought that Avon was most protective of Dayna over other members of the crew.> Eeep. I'm agreeing with Carol! (Well, semi-agreeing, I still think he's more protective of Blake, but we won't go over *that* again). IMO Avon definitely is both more protective of and more indulgent to Dayna than most of the others - the 'in loco parentis' or avuncular thing. Though one has to also state that - in 4th season, at least - she was one of his preferred cannon-fodder crewmembers (Stardrive, Games) - possibly because with the loss of Liberator, Tarrant's value had gone up considerably <g> and he knew better than to allocate the role to Soolin ... Sally - who did realise when reading from o'seas that we agree on something else as well. I recall you saying *you* like Tarrant's Kairos costume ..? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] recognising Blake (was Captain Vila (part 1))
by Sally Manton 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

Marian wrote: <In Powerplay Tarrant tells Avon: "You weren't Blake, I would have recognised him." So he did know what Blake looked like.> You have a point, I forgot that bit (yes, I've been watching Powerplay, but not those bits). Then he just forgot ... well, it was a fair time till 'Blake', I guess (or alternately he hasn't seen an actual picture, he just knows that Blake is the one with the curls ..?) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Captain Vila (part 1)
by Sally Manton 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

This is getting rather long, so I've broken it into parts (aren't you all *thrilled* I'm back? Don't answer that). Mistral wrote: <Actually, you're making an assumption that Vila was trying to distract Avon, and so your question is inherently biased.I don't agree with that assumption; I simply think he was breaking off a tangential discussion that was going away from what he really wanted to talk about,> and Jenny: <How can you possibly say that you know what he "really" wanted to talk about? All you can go by is what's on the screen.> But with all due respect - and I'm really not trying to offend - how can *you* insist he wants to distract Avon? That's not on the screen either. Sauce for the goose and all that ... And distract Avon from *what*? You have said that a couple of times, and I don't see it comes from. What actually happens on screen - at least as far as I can see - is that Avon and Cally are having a who-can-be-more-cryptic conversation, Vila, not unreasonably, asks what they're talking about and Avon (who appears not to want to answer that one) comes back with one of his standard put-downs. And Vila - who for two years has let said put-downs slide by - decides this time to take Avon up on it (the question of why *now* is interesting, see part 3 for ruminations on this point). *Vila* is the one being distracted, not Avon. And the "never mind about me" is also quite reasonable IMO - he's just realised he *has* been distracted from the main thing, the fact that trouble's brewing ("I've been worried all along") and is backtracking to it. <Vila tends to acquire an air of faux innocence when he's lying.> <No. Only when cornered.> Please, a few IMOs wouldn't go astray here (from me as well, to be fair). I agree with Mistral, actually. <The specific reference to Space Captains was IMO likely an exaggeration, due to having issues with upper grades generally and (as Sally mentioned) Tarrant specifically.> <I'm with you on that, but if he's lying here, why believe anything else he says in the rest of the scene? > Why not? If he's exaggerating, there may be a kernel of truth. Everyone lies sometimes - that doesn't mean they do with every breath they take. <My thought is that he could certainly have tested into a slightly higher grade,> <I think that's right as well,> Then what are we arguing about? After all, he if *did* test higher, then there needs to be an explanation of why he isn't *in* a higher grade. <I don't know, a cushy office job is a damn sight safer than being a thief. > "A thief isn't what I am, it's WHO I am." (City) <It's not an assumption. The info is there in the scene. Vila is lying.> No, that is your assumption, and (as I see it) based on at least one fallacy (that he wants to distract Avon, which makes no sense). The straight statement 'he was lying' may have the advantage of simplicity, but *for me* have the rather massive disadvantage of *not* fitting the information both in the scene and in other episodes (in particular but not only Weapon). So *it* is not logical, and I need to hunt around for another one. (Though I'm not saying for one minute that you need to, if it suits you the way it is.) BTW - has anyone any ideas *on* what Avon and Cally's little conversation meant? Why didn't Avon mention the signal from the ground? And while we're at it, why send the crew babies on this one? Either he or Cally would be a better choice - they were part of the legendary rebel team - surely a plus for anti-Federation negotiations - and they would at least recognise Blake if they fell over him (unlike Tarrant, who never got up the curiosity to look up a picture of the man who ran the ship for two years and whose name still influences them, or even to look up some old log files ...) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Gold fish
by Nathan Hook 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

as an occassional poster to this list who has been quiet lately, I'll resubmit my hello's from another part of the country. Formally in Wellington, now I'm in Te Kuiti. For those outside of New Zealand, this is pronounced...Tea Koo-it-tea. Say it reasonably quickly even the first tea and you've got it. this is why I've been silent...the life of a school teacher...planing. And yes, I will use B7 episodes on students. excellent to use for character studies on conflcit themes and things. Kids love sci-fi, although, the special effects of the sci-fi in B7 make for interesting reactions. Now, gold fish who're spawning mini blake's and servalan's. this is a worry. I wonder, perhaps a thrashed plot though. Avon and Servalan children. Twins! One with the best of the characteristics...I won't explain that, you can be free to interpret that as you will, and the other with the worst. You could have male and femle twins or same sex either sex. Either way, tons of conflict. A situation comedy. arguments. servalan sending child to the best meglomaniac and basic brutality finishing schools, Avon trying to put forth the computer systems engineering side of things. Horror. evil twin tries to kill other not so evil twin and father after careful sculpting from evil mother. or...the other way round. 'You know what they say, no good deed goes unpunished.' three things to change on B7. hmmmm. Bring back blake...the avon Blake conflict. who's in charge? how does Blake handle Tarrant? expand glynis barber's role...remove dayna and the absurd action amazon woman with exploding devices on my person for every situation bit. nathan. Nothings so difficult as a beginning/ In poesy, unless perhaps the end. Byron. ------------------------------------------------------------ Free, BeOS-friendly email accounts: http://BeMail.org/ Free Peepshow - http://twinfusion.com/comic/peep/

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How do people watch B7?
by Ann Basart 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

(And Calle -- please tell me if my HTML problem has finally been fixed. Marian de Haan kindly gave me suggestions.) Hi all. I've been wondering how people on the Lyst watch B7. All the episodes (except those that you don't like) in order? Whichever single ep you feel like? Whatever ep is suggested by comments on the Lyst? And how often? I seem to go through the entire thing (except Animals & some others) every year or so. Yes, I know this is a trivial question; but the Lyst is quiet now and I'm curious. --Ann

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How do people watch B7?
by Sally Manton 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

Feste wrote <(Hi. New to the list. And I tend to lurk a lot.)> Welcome! <"Animals," though, is fun to talk back to.> Ah, but have you tried turning the sound off completely and making up new dialogue as it goes along? Even when you make up total nonsense, it tends to improve matters quite a lot, I find ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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