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RE: Sex & evangelism (moving back to B7)
by Rita d' Orac 05 Apr '01

05 Apr '01

Tavia wrote: > The word 'wife' doesn't seem to appear in TWB, but yes you're right on Mrs > Mellanby. > Mebbe someone with all the scripts downloaded and a decent grep function > could compile a 7cyclopaedia entry ? (It amused me slightly that the 'M' > entries included seemingly B7-irrelevant trivia on the 'M16 assault rifle', > and sod-all on 'marriage'.) The word "wife" only appears in 5 episodes (not sure about the radio plays - can't bear to listen to them again to find out): AFTERMATH: Mellanby: Instead, the security forces massacred everyone, men, women, and children. That night I watched them all die. My own wife, my friends, everybody. POWERPLAY: Avon: My name is Chevron, this is my wife, Dayna. DAWN OF THE GODS: Tarrant: You had a family on Xaranor? Groff: A wife and two children. RUMOURS OF DEATH: Sula: No, Chesku. This is no kind of a joke. Chesku: I don't understand. You're my wife. Grenlee: Stopped them? Forres: Councilor Chesku and his wife. Maybe we should have stopped them leaving the surveillance zone. Grenlee: Absolutely, Section Leader. And what I say is that if a High Councilor wishes to swing stark naked through the trees and spit on the surveillance scanners, then swinging stark naked through the trees, spitting on the surveillance scanners, becomes standard procedure, at least for him. Or his wife. Grenlee: [V.O.] Councilor Chesku and his wife left the perimeter some time ago, ma'am. They were taking the air. Grenlee: [V.O.] Have you seen Councilor Chesku and his wife? POWER: Nina: I'm the wife of Gunn Sar. Kate: Wife? But you're a Seska. ===== rita d'orac "If you think of this mouse as a space captain..." http://www.vilaworld.com ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

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Mission to Destiny
by Fiona Moore 05 Apr '01

05 Apr '01

>From: Tavia <tavia(a)btinternet.com> >As I picked this, I felt it my duty to watch it. Serves you jolly well right :). > But then I picked it as >the worst Terry Nation episode I could come up with, and I stand by that >assessment. I agree with you totally on that, actually (though I dunno, Time Squad...). (I won't read Fiona's MtD expose' which I note has arrived as I >was composing this...) And I'll respond to your response separately, cos I'm a bugger for filling up other peoples' mailboxes with posts with identical subject lines :). >First season B7 (in which all episodes were written by Nation) strikes me >sometimes as a set of experiments in writing in different styles/genres. I'd agree. >One can almost imagine Nation sitting down and thinking well, 13 episodes, >Robin Hood in space, when was the deadline, god, last week... what cliche's >can I rehash... and raiding the cupboard of action/adventure (SLD, Project >Avalon), Star Trek (Duel, Deliverance), evil/mad scientist-style sf (The >Web, Orac) &c &c before finally pulling out the Agatha Christie.... Or, perhaps a bit more kindly to Nation: well, 13 episodes, total blank slate of a programme beyond the Robin Hood in Space line-- why don't I try out a few different formats and see what sort of stories work best? This seems to happen with a lot of shows, look at early Doctor Who: ("let's do a caveman story, then let's do a New Wave story, then let's do a hard-sf story, then let's do a story where the characters are shrunk down to one inch tall...") or ST:TNG (let's do a time-travel story, an alien-child story, a story where one of the crew gets godlike powers, a rehash of a script from TOS...)-- before both settle down to an established format. I think perhaps a little too much emphasis has gotten placed, over the years, on the famous story of Nation writing a script to a tight deadline, then getting Boucher to do the edit while he goes away and works on the next one (the usual quote is something along the lines of "What do you want, the edit or next week's story?"). However, from what I've heard, the editing was not so much Boucher having to rewrite the story, as him having to edit down the scenes which contained concepts they couldn't afford to realise (huge crowd scenes, pitched space battles etc) into something they could. >So we're treated to vintage detective fiction in the Poirot style -- >mysterious series of murders, closed system crime, outsiders happen by and >get pulled in to solve the mystery, events cast suspicion on each member of >the group in turn, before finally plot device clue reveals the answer .... But see my last post for the meaning of the plot device clue. I.e., that the answers *were* bloody obvious-- because the interesting bit is not in the solving of the mystery so much as in the watching of all the characters but Avon come up with convoluted rationalisations. >All very well, but the tension here is entirely lacking because there's no >inherent threat to the crew of the Liberator. (The external tension devices >[dark corridors, music track] are all very well but can't really amplify >what just isn't there in the first place.) Not necessarily a problem. There's virtually no threat to the crew in "Killer," and in Doctor Who some quite tense and exciting stuff came out of stories in which the one-off characters were at greater risk than the regulars. The lack of tension is IMO due to cheap production and very uninspired directing. >I'm not even convinced that the 'spacisation' of detective fic would have >been novel at the time -- weren't there some Asimov novels that took this >idea (eg The Caves of Steel, published 1954)? No (remember, "The Robots of Death" also came out in 1977), but be fair, there are lots of stories that are good despite not being novel. >The original intent here was to discuss Terry Nation's writing, so we can >safely ignore one of the worst aspects of the episode ... the terrible >acting by the extras (with their budget they could either hire one or two >extras who could act or 8 who, in the main, couldn't). Technical point: an "extra" is a nonspeaking role; these are "supporting actors." >What we can't ignore is the succession of lame plot devices, not to mention >gaping plot holes (how does Liberator get back to the Ortega without going >through the meteor storm? The implication in the Blake and Vila exchange: "We've got to get back to them!" "Now I *know* I don't feel very well..." is that it did. >, why does Avon confront a known murderer without >a single thought as to the consequences?), Because, as you point out, the story is a Christie pastiche. And for it to work as a pastiche, it has to include Christie elements, chief among which is unfortunately the "now I've brought you all together to inform you that the murderer is one of you..." scene (sorry, I don't much care for Christie). Hence that scene. >and rather odd characterisation >(Blake destroying the Ortega). Blake does hard-bastard things before and since-- witness Breakdown. >And a couple of wibbles. The sub-light-restricted Ortega will take 5 months >to get to Destiny, while Liberator, the fastest ship in space, will take 4 >days -- assuming months are earth length that's only a 40-fold difference, >which doesn't seem to me to be enough. But when has bad science been a barrier to scriptwriting :)? Apparently, when Terry Nation received a letter accusing him of scientific inaccuracy on one point or another, he would send them back a stock letter beginning "Very interesting, but you've overlooked formula XYZ to the power of 39..." and going on :). >There seemed to me to be a strong implication that the fungus from Hell >might be some kind of Federation colonisation device, which in view of >later episodes (Children of Auron, say) seems rather plausible. Interesting, that's a reading I missed. At this stage in the series, though, it sounds like supposition-- going back through the script I can't find any implication that this is so. > In which >case, there's almost certainly a quick and cheap way of killing the fungus >once the existing colonists have been driven away/died. This type of >possibility would seem to make for a much more interesting/pointful episode >than watching Avon striding around with his hands behind his back imitating >Poirot... They did make that episode though, it was called "Killer" :). >So... sloppy hack writing ? Definitely. Hack writing? Maybe. But sloppy? No. >Deep meaning ? None that I can see. See elsewhere on Occam's Razor. >Entertaining ? Not really. Agreed on that score. The poor production *still* leaves me cold. Fiona The Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane I can't believe I just defended "M2D" at http://nyder.r67.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Gun-toting blondes (was Re: [B7L] Terry Nation as Writer)
by Tavia 05 Apr '01

05 Apr '01

Kanna-Ophelia wrote: >I really, really wish Soolin had more to do. But I do think she's a nice >counterpoint to Avon - somehow, all that cool cynicism coming from >someone who is young, pretty and above all female seems to change >its meaning. And, also, she draws attention to how erratic he's become >in contrast to S1 Avon - my favourite example is in Assassin, where >the men are running around with testosterone pumping and Soolin >just flops down on her shapely bottom and *thinks* her way through. Yeah, I wasn't saying she was entirely plot neutral, and she does have a good episode in 'Assassin' (well somebody had to). But her *character* is hardly developed until 'Warlord' and 'Blake' -- before then she could be summed up in a sentence. And I personally rather object to 'pretty and above all female' changing anything. (The fat and ugly have feelings too.) Tavia

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Re: [B7L] Mission to Destiny
by Tavia 05 Apr '01

05 Apr '01

Re: Lystitis >Or posting accompanied by a burning sensation I was womanfully preventing myself from saying Or posting little but very frequently... Tavia

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Which Question(s) Would You Ask the Script Editor? (Hypothetical) ; Was Re: Mission to Destiny.
by seven＠gaudaprime.com 05 Apr '01

05 Apr '01

Fiona wrote: >>I think perhaps a little too much emphasis has gotten placed, over >>the years, on the famous story of ... writing a script to a tight >>deadline, then getting to do the edit while he goes away and works >>on the next one Tavia >I wasn't thinking so much of that as the everyday realities of writing >for money and to deadlines, which has paid for my internet access for >several years now. Fiona >>However, from what I've heard, the editing was >>not so much ... having to rewrite the story, as him having to >>edit down the scenes which contained concepts they couldn't afford to >>realise (huge crowd scenes, pitched space battles etc) into something >>they could. Tavia >I'm already looking forward to hearing ... speak at Redemption 03. (snipped rest of post) David writes I am thinking of attending the event. Possibly I may hear what the Script Editor has to say on the following issue: G.R. Having said that, ... has commented before that ... was not averse to cutting expository dialogue, no matter how important to the plot it might have been. J.L.V. I can't find the quote right now, but ... said something similar in an interview, that he cut dialog out of the script in some episode without realising till it aired that it was a crucial piece of information. I've always wondered what bit that might have been? David If you, Tavia or Fiona, had the chance to spend quiet time with the B7 Script Editor, what would you ask him? DC http://tezcatlipoca.algonet.se/cgi-bin/getbyid.pl?id=11481

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Re: Mission to Destiny
by Steve Rogerson 05 Apr '01

05 Apr '01

Haven't watched this for a while, but I have alsways considered it a vert enjoyable, though a bit offbeat, episode. The bit that always gets me is Avon turning his back on sarah before announcing that she did it. Bit daft. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption 03, 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent The 25th Anniversary Blake's 7 Convention The 10th Anniversary Babylon 5 Convention http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Fwd: Re: [B7L] Terry Nation as Writer
by Kanna Ophelia 05 Apr '01

05 Apr '01

Aaargh! Been doing it again... Apologies to everyone whose been recieving personal copies of my messages. I've become lazily used to yahoogroups, where the default is reply to list... Have to reset my stubborn brain. Reposting: > > (And don't forget that Soolin later appeared with little apparent purpose > > other than to soup up the gun-toting blonde index -- her character hardly > > develops very much for episode after episode, probably till 'Warlord'.) > > Hey hey hey - is there something wrong with that? Beautiful gun-toting blondes > rock my world! <g> > > I really, really wish Soolin had more to do. But I do think she's a nice > couterpoint to Avon - someohow, all that cool cynicism coming from someone who > is young, pretty and above all female seems to change its meaning. And, also, > she draws attention to how erratic he's become in contrast to S1 Avon - my > favourite example is in Asassin, where the men are running around with > testosterone pumping and Soolin just flops down on her shapely bottom and > *thinks* her way through. > > I really wish she *had* kissed Piri, though. :) > > 'Tis about time I resurrected the Temple of our underutilised, but definitely > divine, Golden Goddess, methinks. Seriously, her beauty aside, she really does > fascinate me, she carries the moral detachment that peeks through B7 at times > to another level. > > XXX > Kanna-Ophelia > --------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using One.Net's Mail Man. > http://mailman.one.net.au --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using One.Net's Mail Man. http://mailman.one.net.au

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surveillance...cont..
by Nathan Hook 05 Apr '01

05 Apr '01

I heard a conspiracy theory which suggested that the numbers on the bottom of your passport are secured electronically and reveal a lot of information about you. The chap who touted this theory said an associate in australia said I can find anything about you with those numbers and det out to prove it. aparently using the internet and the apropriate know how, he was able to gather all sorts of sensitive personal information about this chap. The again, this has reminded me how convenient the electronic age is for such tasks. A documentary article here in NZ asked several people off the street whether they'd like to be guinea pigs in a wee experiment...they'd give their name and the current affairs show, and with the use of a private investigator, the show would track them down. well, it took only minutes really. the investigator came knocking at the door, much to the surprise of the person with an unlisted phone number and showed what he'd collected on them from electronic data. it was quite a shock. earnings, tax files, etce etc. it was all there. SF is here already. Nathan, Nothings so difficult as a beginning/ In poesy, unless perhaps the end. Byron. ------------------------------------------------------------ Free, BeOS-friendly email accounts: http://BeMail.org/ Free Peepshow - http://twinfusion.com/comic/peep/

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RE: Sex & evangelism (moving back to B7)
by Tavia 05 Apr '01

05 Apr '01

Calle: >Could you please either bring this back on-topic Is there any evidence that marriage was common under Federation law? There are a few couples that are generally referred to by fen as being married but are not in fact referred to as such on screen as far as I can recall (Vena and Muller, Tel Varon and Maja), but the only certain example I can think of is Sula and Chesku. It's a fairly common fanfic notion that marriage is reserved for the aristocracy. Perhaps there is therefore little concept of adultery? Tavia

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Mission to Destiny
by Tavia 05 Apr '01

05 Apr '01

As I picked this, I felt it my duty to watch it. But then I picked it as the worst Terry Nation episode I could come up with, and I stand by that assessment. (I won't read Fiona's MtD expose' which I note has arrived as I was composing this...) First season B7 (in which all episodes were written by Nation) strikes me sometimes as a set of experiments in writing in different styles/genres. One can almost imagine Nation sitting down and thinking well, 13 episodes, Robin Hood in space, when was the deadline, god, last week... what cliche's can I rehash... and raiding the cupboard of action/adventure (SLD, Project Avalon), Star Trek (Duel, Deliverance), evil/mad scientist-style sf (The Web, Orac) &c &c before finally pulling out the Agatha Christie.... So we're treated to vintage detective fiction in the Poirot style -- mysterious series of murders, closed system crime, outsiders happen by and get pulled in to solve the mystery, events cast suspicion on each member of the group in turn, before finally plot device clue reveals the answer .... All very well, but the tension here is entirely lacking because there's no inherent threat to the crew of the Liberator. (The external tension devices [dark corridors, music track] are all very well but can't really amplify what just isn't there in the first place.) I'm not even convinced that the 'spacisation' of detective fic would have been novel at the time -- weren't there some Asimov novels that took this idea (eg The Caves of Steel, published 1954)? The original intent here was to discuss Terry Nation's writing, so we can safely ignore one of the worst aspects of the episode ... the terrible acting by the extras (with their budget they could either hire one or two extras who could act or 8 who, in the main, couldn't). What we can't ignore is the succession of lame plot devices, not to mention gaping plot holes (how does Liberator get back to the Ortega without going through the meteor storm?, why does Avon confront a known murderer without a single thought as to the consequences?), and rather odd characterisation (Blake destroying the Ortega). And a couple of wibbles. The sub-light-restricted Ortega will take 5 months to get to Destiny, while Liberator, the fastest ship in space, will take 4 days -- assuming months are earth length that's only a 40-fold difference, which doesn't seem to me to be enough. There seemed to me to be a strong implication that the fungus from Hell might be some kind of Federation colonisation device, which in view of later episodes (Children of Auron, say) seems rather plausible. In which case, there's almost certainly a quick and cheap way of killing the fungus once the existing colonists have been driven away/died. This type of possibility would seem to make for a much more interesting/pointful episode than watching Avon striding around with his hands behind his back imitating Poirot... So... sloppy hack writing ? Definitely. Deep meaning ? None that I can see. Entertaining ? Not really. Tavia

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