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5511 discussions

Re: [B7L] Re: Ethics and Hal Mellanby
by Jenny Kaye 04 Apr '01

04 Apr '01

Harriere wrote: >CHEL: This is the day that was prophesied. The day our lore foretold. >They will come from the sky to destroy us. They will burn the stars to >light their way. We must be prepared. > >He relates the prophecy to the new aliens, arriving in the aftermath of >the Galactic War. But doesn't he go on to say something like "hunt the strangers down and kill them?" >Of course, it's possible that he cited it every time >some aliens turned up (we know the Mellanbys had visitors, such as >Justin), but his people might have got a bit sceptical after a while. Would they? People can be very stupid, and if he took a "See-- we got rid of those ones but the next ones could kill us" line, wouldn't it have kept them in a nervous and easily controlled state? And the prophecy keeps being partly fulfilled, because the outsiders who do turn up don't do anything to show they're not unfriendly, and the Mellanbys (Mellanbies?)keep shooting them. >(It's interesting that we *never* see the prophecy fulfilled - >traditionally, these things do come to pass Really? ISTM the best prophecies are the ones that *never* get fulfilled, so that people are always waiting for something that never comes. >, so perhaps Servalan decided >to launch a revenge attack to teach them how to be polite to visiting >dignitaries.) Think she'd bother? >I'm sure the Sarrans would always have been very wary of alien arrivals, >but that doesn't mean they couldn't have had preliminary negotiations >when Hal arrived (and if that was 20 years ago, he might have negotiated >with Chel's predecessor). They don't negotiate with the people out of the capsules. If they did, it would seem that the >negotiations broke down, reinforcing the fear of aliens and undermining >anyone supporting a more conciliatory policy. At this point, they might >have concluded that the Mellanbys were the vanguard of the aliens who >would destroy them, but if they really thought they were so dangerous I >can't believe it would have taken 20 years to eliminate them, if only by >starving them out. The Mellanbys have the advantage in terms of technology. The Sarrans couldn't find the escape hatch, either. >Checking the script again, Dayna says the Sarrans were a problem when >her father first arrived, but now leave them alone. This could >undermine my thesis, but I'm still prepared to argue for (a) preliminary >negotiation (b) breakdown (c) intense skirmishing (d) stalemate (e) >leaving each other alone, as Sarrans decide there's no immediate sign of >their world being destroyed. But then, why didn't Dayna say "Father said we got along well with them when we first arrived, but now they just attack us?" And why do the Mellanbies treat them like animals to be conditioned or killed? Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Perceptions
by Tavia 04 Apr '01

04 Apr '01

Alison wrote: >What if the very simplicity >or indeed amateurishness of a piece of fanfiction (its cheekiness if you >like) is part of its message. That's pretty challenging and interesting in >itself. I agree in principle this is possible, but can't think of a fanfic example offhand (perhaps you can provide?) where 'amateurishness' was (IMO) anything other than a partial failure of the writer's skills to carry the plot/message. (That might sound fairly unkind, but I'd include all of my own fiction writing in that heap, and I wouldn't necessarily consider it other than a compliment -- better to have tried to pull off something complex and only 60% succeeded than to have attempted something easy and 95% succeeded, or indeed to have sat and carped on the sidelines...) The other aspect of amateurishness in fanzines, of course, is the production side. I've heard more than one B7 fan praise zines with very amateur production techniques (one hesitates to say 'poorly produced') precisely for the amateurish look. Personally, I like them both ways -- ttba was an attempt to produce a nice-looking zine without it ever leaving my back-bedroom-cum-home-office, while my favourite-ever B7 zine (Stadler Link) had a fairly amateur look to it before ever I spilled coffee on my copy.... >If it is just a bloody noise that you would rather not listen to, it is more >likely to repel people, make them prefer commercial products. Or indeed amateur products in a different genre. For what it's worth, I'd rate a lot of fanfiction as at least as high quality as a lot of commercial fiction. >I think in >that respect fanfic is more successful than punk, because it is more >consistently enjoyed, and has avoided selling out. I'm not convinced fanfiction can ever 'sell out' -- its very existence implies interacting with the source series in a fashion other than the bland consumer that the producers probably envisaged. Tavia

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re: [B7L] Terry Nation as Writer
by Tavia 03 Apr '01

03 Apr '01

Fiona wrote: >So yes, you're right about there being more blondes in S3... I'm surprised it was *that* marked. (A good 30% of the female one-offs I couldn't remember well enough to work out their hair colour...) >...redheads are, grouse grouse, a negligible presence). Yeah, we should form a redheads alliance with Una....We need an acronym! >We've only looked at three Nations thus far. I think we might have some >surprises coming... How 'bout Mission to Destiny ? Tavia

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Re: [B7L] Terry Nation as Writer
by Tavia 03 Apr '01

03 Apr '01

Fiona wrote: >but I feel a bit lost on the last statement. >AFAIK, Lauren was never intended to become a regular-- do you mean she was >brought in to let the viewers think that she was going to join the crew? Or >because the episode needed some blonde content :)? The latter I fear. Now I think about it, it's perhaps interesting the number of season 3 episodes that have blondish female one-off characters... (And don't forget that Soolin later appeared with little apparent purpose other than to soup up the gun-toting blonde index -- her character hardly develops very much for episode after episode, probably till 'Warlord'.) >But the fact that he was writing to a formula doesn't necessarily make the >episode bad, or non-complex. Hence my comment worst (best?). (And speaking as a hack-writer myself, it certainly isn't all bad, or all non-complex.) >Yes-- though I think Rescue's brilliant too, myself (saw it over Christmas, >fantastic). I haven't seen City in about a year, though, so I can't comment. I love nearly all the CB episodes (and all the RH episodes, for that matter) -- but leafing through the programme list, I wouldn't have called those two particularly complex or political. >But at least three of his [[Nation's]] stories do seem to provide >material to talk about, and maybe the same can be said of at least some of >the others too... But 3/19 plus a bit (Nation) < 7/9 (Boucher). I think. Tavia

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Re: [B7L] surveillance cameras
by J MacQueen 03 Apr '01

03 Apr '01

>From: Steve Kilbane <steve(a)whitecrow.demon.co.uk> >Back to risks, though - Joanne wrote: > > when all that's really required is some sort of card which has a name, a > > photograph, and a signature on it. >Alas, that's not enough, because it's amazingly easy to forge. <wail> I know, I know, I know. And to answer Julia's question, I don't have a passport. Never had one. Not seen anyone else's recently. Only time I've been out of the country was 1985, before the Fijian coup meant passports had to carried by passengers on cruise ships. (You'd have good grounds for arguing, however, that the Fairstar was a perambulating piece of Australian soil, and that I've never really left the country in any meaningful sense.) I wasn't looking for this sort of response - I did try to indicate that I know that any sort of simple, or simplistic, solution would cause complex problems in trying to execute it. It wouldn't work. I know we've discussed the possible origins of the Federation itself before, but it might be held up as an example of this. Banding planets together is one thing; keeping them together after the initial enthusiasm had passed would've been another thing altogether, until the methods and rules and so forth produced the political entity we all know and loathe. Regards Joanne _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Interpretation (Tarrant Nostra)
by Andrew Williams 03 Apr '01

03 Apr '01

Carol Mc wrote: >Fortunately for you, Andrew, you have a few credits with the Tarrant Nostra >Accounting Department in appreciation of your gorgeous Tarrant art in >Chronicles 64. But we will be keeping an eye on you, and on your zine credit >pages. The "Del 'some say I'm illiterate, but it's untrue' Tarrant" did not >slip by our notice. That was in defence of Tarrant - how can anyone say he is illiterate based on one line in DotG? Actually, if you look on the contents page the fine print says the "prufe reeder" is nigel molesworth (and that was back in August 99 - before I'd seen Neil's excellent molesworth pastiches). Regards, Andrew.

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a student in dire need of help!!!!! (fwd)
by Tavia 03 Apr '01

03 Apr '01

Judith wrote: >I know people have varying feelings about being the >subject of research, but I've not run across a student >analysing conventions as a culture before, so if anyone >wants to lend her a hand, please drop her a line. I hope you'll encourage Hannah to share a summary of her results with the Lyst. Who knows, she might even join us... Tavia

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Re: [B7L] leaving the lyst (Sorry to see you go Shane)
by Jenny Kaye 03 Apr '01

03 Apr '01

Cheryl wrote: >I prefer this, I know this list is for varied >discussion surrounding Blake 7 and that these >discussions can go elsewhere(that's fine) but what >Shane said seems to be so true - here, there is more >interest on the sexual side and not enough of what is >actually Blake's 7. Fun is great - but sex isn't the >only fun to be had. Maybe I'm sticking my neck out here but I agree with Cheryl. I thought Freedom City was supposed to be the list for discussing sex, and this was for general discussion bearing in mind that anyone of any age or religious persuasion might be reading. So it's nice to see most people talking about the programme instead :). And Rita wrote: I did not always like the tone >of some of Shane's posts and I felt that his continually getting at Annie/Leah >or any other individuals on the list was both pointless and unhelpful in >building up a case to support his viewpoint on slash. As for Shane, I don't think people should be talked about behind their backs, but I will say that he wasn't the only one flaming that I could see (no pun intended). Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Fanfics and limericks
by Fiona Moore 03 Apr '01

03 Apr '01

>From: jacquispeel(a)netscape.net >Is the argument Travis uses at his trial it a 'far more sophisticated' version of Par's 'only obeying orders' or is it something else? It's something else. Travis was not obeying orders, he was giving them-- there's a difference. I recommend Jim Smith's outstanding article in Zenith (available on Judith Proctor's website and at fine stores everywhere), which addresses the question in detail. Fiona (who is by coincidence currently reading the summations of the Nuremberg Trials...) The Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane Live from the observer's gallery at http://nyder.r67.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: Blake Changes His Mind (was Re: [B7L] Re: Interpretation )
by Marian de Haan 03 Apr '01

03 Apr '01

Harriet Monkhouse wrote about Blake's change in character: >At the start of the episode, Blake's face is smooth, bland and youthful. He doesn't actually look like the Blake I know from the rest of the series until we see him in his cell, and then talking to Havant. How much of his memory has returned I don't know, but he's beginning to regain his dissident mindset. He looks older, stressed, but at the same time more vital.< Having become used to the Blake of later episodes, it's fun to go back and watch him being such a model citizen. Marian

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