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5511 discussions

Fascists/feudalism
by Nathan Hook 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

Somebody mentioned corporate america and connecting it with a regime similar to B7's Federation...I think, I now can't find the quote...which is nice. Nevertheless I had heard that comparisons had been made with corporate companies and western european Feudalism and given the references earlier to fascism, i wonder if feudal systems were applicable to the Federation. It seems reasonable when you consider as an example, the Moloch episode and section leader Grosse building up resources sufficient to be a threat to the destabilised post galactic war Feration. the whole galaxy was a series of loose economic and military alliances based on territory and resources. Nathan. 'Dudu' said nothing, as/Her talants were of the more silent class.'Byron. ------------------------------------------------------------ Free, BeOS-friendly email accounts: http://BeMail.org/ Peep! .:. http://twinfusion.com/comic/peep/ .:. An Epic Webcomic

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Re: [B7L] Re: slash (not much shorter)
by Tavia 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

Neil: >I used to think that the SF/F milieu might be the prime factor permitting >the slashing of such series of B7, ST, and the like. That is, that a >setting removed from the real world would facilitate the consideration of >relationships that would not normally be considered as a serious possibility >in the real world. Speaking as one who was a surprise convert to slash relatively late (last spring), this idea appeals to me. (1) Extrapolating from current trends (never particularly wise, but what else can one do?) suggests to me that bisexuality is likely to be the future human norm -- at least in societies where sex is partially divorced from procreation. (2) The B7 Federation setting strikes me as likely to condemn or suppress divergent expressions of sexuality. (1) + (2) makes hidden gay subtexts in B7 a plausible subject of interest, at least. >But the slashing of mundane shows like The >Professionals, Starsky and Hutch, and even Inspector Morse, rather knocks >that one out of the window. I never saw any gay subtexts in any of these, and find Professionals fanfic (not seen either of the other two) pretty close to unreadable, not because of the lack of gay subtexts, more because what I've seen has been badly written. I do wonder if different shows get slashed for different reasons. Someone suggested at the Redemption slash panel that B7 slash is unusual -- usually the relationship is romantic (m/m Mills & Boon), while the B7 relationships tend to be darker. >OTOH, it could be that slashing began (as it appears to have done) with ST >*because* it was set in an ORL (outside real life) milieu, but having >established itself there it spread to fandoms of other shows with IRL >milieux. Plausible. >Was ST the first show (SF/F or otherwise) to be slashed? Was it, indeed, >the first show to generate a body of fanfic? (Fanfic of a kind goes back at >least to Sherlock Holmes, I think I've heard it said, long before >television.) I think fanfic might be a natural consequence of reading or viewing in some susceptible readers/viewers. I certainly started to write fanfic as a kid without any idea that anyone else did it, or even that there was an 'it' for anyone else to do. (Tolkien mainly in my case.) Tavia

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Re: [B7L] Science Fiction and Political Reality
by Harriet Monkhouse 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

Neil replied to me, about Justin's disapproval of the Galactic War: >I think it might actually be that Allan Prior lost touch >with who was fighting who and why. Well, that would be my first thought, but I try to forget those sorts of thoughts. >A *galactic* war needn't mean the war with the Andromedans > at all, but the warfare that implicitly broke out across the galaxy >as a result of the Federation's losses fighting the Andromedans. It did occur to me that it might not be the Andromedan war per se (and hence galactic, not intergalactic), but I incline to Occam's Razor and therefore assume there was only one war, in the absence of clear reference to another one. I do accept that there was a lot of fighting within our galaxy in the immediate aftermath, as various Federation colonies exploited the situation to make a bid for freedom, and of course there was the attempted revolution on Earth. But I don't think I would classify these as a war, or at least not a galactic one - that would imply (to me) two large, mostly unified forces fighting a campaign against each other across a large part of the galaxy. The scenario that is suggested during third/fourth season is, as you say, chaos. In the chaotic scenario of multiple rebellions etc, what would the terrible, terrible mistake be? Resisting the Federation? While I pondered these things, Kat W suggested a simple solution to me. The Andromedans were actually the Australians, who emigrated in search of better weather after the Americans and Russians blew each other up, leaving the England cricket team and the Barmy Army to recolonise Earth (see my earlier post). The Aussie/Andros returned to reclaim the Ashes. Justin's faction thought they were absolutely entitled to take the urn home from Lord's, after winning the series for several centuries on the trot. But MCC, the real power behind the Federation, said they'd never surrendered custody of the Ashes to the Aussies when they lived on the other side of the same planet and they were damned if they were change their policy now that they lived in another galaxy. Harriere

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RE: Re: [B7L] Modes of engagement
by Tavia 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

Neil responding to Annie: >I merely think you are mistaken in thinking that your chosen >mode of engagement is that adopted by most fans most of the >time and hence represents a normative mode against which all >others should be compared. It might be worth pointing out that there are B7 fans not on Lysator (shock horror) and indeed there are fans on Freedom City who deliberately haven't joined Lysator (or who mainly lurk on Lysator) for a range of reasons, including, I think, that they find the habitual mode of discourse frightening, exclusive or just plain dull. As an ex-molecular biologist-cum-virologist, who hasn't written an essay since she left school and knows precisely no politics, sociology, or the like, 'you' sure frighten me at times... Tavia

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Point of interest...
by Nathan Hook 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

a census was conducted in NZ last night. immediately peter tuddenham's voice flashes in my mind from traitor, 'Attention citizens! This is a census call.' anyway an email had been going around asking people to declare their religion as "Jedi". the intention was, not just to annoy the bureacracy, but to prove and test the power of email and to annoy bureacracy. aparently one could be prosecuted for filling out false information, but how could you prov you were not Jedi? I filled it out...under the influence of another Jedi's mind trick? I refer the whole idea to deinstitutionalisation in my previous email then. Nathan. A 'strange coincidence', to use a phrase/ By which such things are settled nowadays. Byron. ------------------------------------------------------------ Free, BeOS-friendly email accounts: http://BeMail.org/ Peep! .:. http://twinfusion.com/comic/peep/ .:. An Epic Webcomic

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Re: [B7L] Re: Channel 4
by Tavia 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

Steve: >Tavia asked when Channel 4 started. I know it was the first week of November, >because I still have the poster, but I'm not sure which year, but I'd guess 1982. This seems to support my personal take, which is that C4 took over the role of the beeb in purveying drama in the UK over the early-to-mid 80s. As C4 became more popular, the beeb retaliated by going 'downmarket' and producing and also importing ever more soap opera, of ever-decreasing quality, of which EastEnders is just one example. Thus died all hope of serious drama for many years, and televisual sf was buried with it. (I gave up watching television in 1986 for nearly a decade -- it doesn't look like I missed a lot.) Tavia

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Thatcher v Servalan
by Steve Rogerson 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

Murray said: "When I first watched B7, as a nine year old, I made an automatic link between Servalan and Margaret Thatcher, both being strong, capable women, who would go far, a link strengthened by the latter's election victory in 1979, and her ruthlessness." And Thatcher spent much of her early years in office battling for the mindset of the people over Northern Ireland and the freedom fighters/terrorists (depending on your point of view). The hunger strikes in the early 1980s were significant because when Bobby Sands died, that put a lot of people in the camp supporting the IRA's cause. There has always been a majority in Britain in favour of Britain pulling out of Ireland, and that made it more difficult for her, not just in the UK but on the world stage. Also at the time, Thatcher was toying with the idea of privatising the BBC. I've always wondered how significant it was that the BBC pulled a programme that was hitting 10m viewers that made heroes of a bunch of freedom fighters/terrorists (depending on your point of view) fighting a strong female leader. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption: The Blake's 7 and Babylon 5 convention 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption

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groping...
by Nathan Hook 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

"The scene I'm thinking of is the bit where he and the crew stage the > gunfight to bring her out into the open. She comes out, he grabs hold of her > and, possibly by accident but it does happen, grabs her breast" I've seen that...and then there's the one where cally in the Orac episode I think, helps Jenna to her cabin after she's half collapsed in the corridor...the hand unwittingly grabs the breast... also a scene which cracks me up...on Gold. when Avon first arrives on the ship space princess and they head off to Keelers office a female pasenger wearing a skimpy blue braless number walks towards avon and soolin. watch where Paul darrows eyes go...with a very big grin on his face. as any man would...:) nathan. A 'strange coincidence', to use a phrase/ By which such things are settled nowadays. Byron. ------------------------------------------------------------ Free, BeOS-friendly email accounts: http://BeMail.org/ Peep! .:. http://twinfusion.com/comic/peep/ .:. An Epic Webcomic

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Re: Eighties drama [was Re: [B7L] Thatcher v Servalan]
by J MacQueen 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

>From: Mistral <mistral(a)centurytel.net> >But Aunty Jo! I've put so much effort into learning to accept my own >imperfections - how could I love wobbly sets and flightless birds >otherwise? It's calling multi-skilling, Mistral. You're very clever, and I know you'll manage. Your next task, after you've mastered that, is to build me an anti-circular argument device, so that I can detect the next thread most likely to mutate into such a hydra-headed monster and avoid it. Regards Joanne (or find me a working teleport, one or the other...) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Atomic war
by Deborah Day 07 Mar '01

07 Mar '01

This email was delivered to you by The Free Internet, a Business Online Group company. http://www.thefreeinternet.net --------------------------------------------------------------- >> OK, then. The England cricket team was touring Australia when the >> Americans and Russians wiped each other out, and the Federation citizens >> are descended from the players plus the Barmy Army. The Australians moved >> somewhere else with better weather. I had always assumed that Russia and America would fight it out across the Pacific or North Pole - after all, why go across Europe when the two countries are actually adjacent round that side? It's only because all the maps have America on the left and Europe etc on the right and we tend to think that that is the way of the world - not may maps have the Pacific in the middle. Debbie

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