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5511 discussions

Subtext vs Character, or would Mr Humphries have pushed the right buttons?
by Sally Manton 04 Feb '01

04 Feb '01

Reading Neil and Jacqueline's posts ... I sort of take a middle path. Yes, IMO the sexism subtext *is* there (one never denied it) but it's not the *same* subtext it would be if the characters weren't who they were. The latter does influence the former (and vice versa, of course). I said before, I do think having *Avon* in the role subverts it quite nicely because of his kerflummoxed reactions and deep - if Avonishly covered-up mortification at the whole thing (Blake wouldn't have been nearly as much fun, love him as I do. Jenna or Cally may have been admirable reverse-sexism, but would have been dull in themselves. Vila ... oh dear oh dear, only if the Grecian robes in red fur <g>) Avon would have been a lot more comfortable if Meegat had just looked him straight in the eye and said "you do this job for me and I'll help you get your crewmember back. Deal?" For all his arrogance, he has a sense of the ridiculous, and he feels ridiculous in the role the plot has pushed him into. That the author - whether it's Nation in the original script or Boucher in the re-write - may not have intended this subversion is not important. 'Tis unlikely the author meant to write a sexist tract, either, so we're all reading stuff in as we watch. (Isn't that part of the fun? Don't answer that <g>). To illustrate the importance of the characters - to me, at least - may I suggest a few recasts? Imagine taking out Avon and putting in Jarvik (from Kairos) or Carnell (from Weapon). Or James T Kirk (ick. Double ick. Six million times ick). Now take them out and put in Harold from 'Neighbours'.* If you can see the same type of sexism in the image of *him* firing off rockets, phallic or otherwise, you're doing better than I am ... Take out Meegat - naive, desperately, embarrasingly in earnest, but still with total composure - and put in Piri. Or consider Xena or Callisto. Or Sally from 'Third Rock from the Sun'. There would still be the same sexual subtext and assumptions in all of these versions (personally the Harold/Callisto one appeals to me) but they're differently twisted in each case. As always JMHO ... Sally *Before anyone groans, I have Small Relatives. I tend to see (not watch) small amounts of a lot of programs I'd rather not have :-) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Redemption hotel rooms
by Steve Rogerson 04 Feb '01

04 Feb '01

The hotel for Redemption is now sold out on Friday night. However, there are a lot of people in single rooms. Single rooms are basically twin rooms with only one person in them. If anyone has booked a single and would be willing to share, please let us know asap. In the meantime, we are trying to sort out an overflow hotel or some nearby b&bs. I'll keep you posted as to how we get on. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption: The Blake's 7 and Babylon 5 convention 23-25 February 2001, Ashford, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Re: [B7L] Re: Groundhog Day
by Sally Manton 04 Feb '01

04 Feb '01

After I wrote: <And one from Una and Steve where they re-live Animals over and over and over until *everyone* finds ten good things to say about it.> Steve answered: <What? You mean you think Animals can be improved? How can perfection be improved?> Steve dear, I'm not talking about me - I *found* my ten, remember? But there must be - oh, *hundreds* of other moments to treasure for others to treasure and - in the interests of encouraging torturing Our Heroes unmercifully - I simply think that they ought to repeat the whole fifty minutes until we've gleaned them *all* ... ... or something. Me, I'll take a 'Groundhog Shadow' thanks. Repeating that one is sheer pleasure anyway. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption: The Blake's 7 and Babylon 5 convention 23-25 February 2001, Ashford, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Dream
by Natasa Tucev 04 Feb '01

04 Feb '01

Ellynne wrote: >On Sat, 3 Feb 2001 11:13:08 +0100 Natasa Tucev ><tucev(a)tesla.rcub.bg.ac.yu> writes: >> I had an interesting B7 dream last night which I thought I'd share >> with you. > >The ideas this brings to mind . . . . I was hoping it might provoke someone to write a story. >> (In the second part of my dream, Blake is playing football. Slightly >> boiling >> over about the waist, but oh what wonderful legs...) > > >[Another lengthy blank look] > >Blake is a team player? I think he was alone on court, and he carried this ball instead of kicking it, which maybe suggests he wasn't going to give it to anyone else... Oh, never mind. The legs, the legs... N.

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Torture
by Sally Manton 04 Feb '01

04 Feb '01

Kathryn wrote: <I was wondering, what is it about Hurt/Comfort fiction that fans seem to pick certain characters most often to be tormented, tortured and hurt? Why Avon rather than Blake? And if you say "he suffers beautifully", that isn't an answer.> Damn. I was about to wail "but he looks so pretty!!!" which I take it is also not an answer ... <Then I realized the common denominator of all three victims; they're all intellectuals, geeks. Not that Blake isn't a philosopher, but you've got to admit that Avon is more geeky than Blake. And with the others the difference is even more obvious. So why is it that the H/C writers have it in for geeks?> <grin> I honestly hadn't thought of it that way, but then I don't go for h/c *except* in B7. Okay, just a few thoughts ... I have to admit, Avon is my favourite dumpee, although - in the course of the *huge* amount of reading needed for Jenny's and my A-B gen list - I did find I like Blake-dumping more than I used to. But it's still mostly (not always) on a mental/emotional level, because - while Avon's romantic history may be romantic - I don't really think it can compare in sheer trauma with what's been done to Blake before they even get to the Liberator (no, not even *post*-RoD). The sheer angst levels involved in dealing with his mind-rape and the molesting-those-children charges really leave any potential for *psychical* torture behind, especially given his attitude towards physical pain (Cygnus Alpha, anyone?) Plus, his usual protectiveness towards his own (and any lame strays they encounter) and the fact that he's torn between having to use them as Federation-fodder and caring about them as people means that physically hurting any of the rest is going to get far more angst out of him than hurting *him* is. Also yes, Blake makes a wonderful comforter, being warm-hearted, physically strong enough to cope with injured and recalictrant comfortees, and able to judge when a hug *is* needed (my personal fanon says he gives good cuddles. My personal fanon does not say this about many of the rest.) With Avon - the perfect (for me) comfortee - it's partly a matter of the balance between strength and vulnerability. Vila is (deliberately, most likely) *too* vulnerable, he'd go to pieces before the hurt even got started, which may be fun but does nothing for the angst levels :-). Gan, being a big, powerful man *isn't* physically vulnerable, and the amount of hurt involved to - well, *hurt* - would probably go rather a long way beyond my squick factor. And Avon's reactions to being vulnerable - to risking those formidable defences of his - are more interesting than most of the others. In a good h/c story, he's - to put it mildly - rather less than willing to *be* comforted (another reason why Blake is the comforter of choice, since Blake is the only one who IMO can *make* Avon do what Avon doesn't want to do). In fact he sees it as a new and improved form of torture in itself, poor angel ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Redemption Auction
by Steve Rogerson 04 Feb '01

04 Feb '01

We've had some additions to the auction list for Redemption since the last Progress Report: An unused head from the Londo doll sold on the station before Sherridan stopped the merchandise Vere Lorrimer's tapes. Both start with prog. identification, a burst of tone (high pitched whine), ep 2 has a clock, ep 1 doesn't, then both go into opening graphics, run the show as transmission and end with closing credits. Strangerers merchandise. Tote bag, made of unbleached cotton with fabric handles and the Strangerers logo on one side. Baseball cap, standard size, unbleached cotton with bright green peak and Strangerers logo, in green, across the front. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption: The Blake's 7 and Babylon 5 convention 23-25 February 2001, Ashford, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Re: [B7L] Crossover
by M 04 Feb '01

04 Feb '01

On Sat, 03 Feb 2001 16:49:54 -0500, jacquispeel(a)netscape.net wrote: > I mentioned Dallas (the series) in connection with Deliverance, sexism et al yesterday. > > What would happen if the Liberator crew were to end up in the Southfork/Ewing orbit? Would JR or Avon win out? > > > Jacqui Avon would shoot JR!!!??? M. _______________________________________________________ Get 100% private, FREE email for life from Excite UK Visit http://inbox.excite.co.uk/

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Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by Sally Manton 04 Feb '01

04 Feb '01

On the subject to why Avon gets to be Lord instead of Blake, Julia wrote: <Not quite, it was so that an actor bearing a strong resemblance to Blake could be off doing some location shooting at a folly..> Oh yes, I'd forgotten this bit. Which complicates the matter of what 'the author' meant consciously or unconsciously even further. So it's more than likely Terry Nation only wrote the 'Blake is God' version of the story; given the way the first season was written (as I understand it) and running late, it's also likely that the re-write giving the role to Avon (while Fearless Leader was stuck up a folly) was done by Chris Boucher. And we can quite easily attribute the fact that, in a tearing hurry, he gave the role to Avon to the simple fact that - as he's said - Avon was the one he liked writing for most. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: Groundhog Day
by Steve Rogerson 04 Feb '01

04 Feb '01

Sally wrote: "And one from Una and Steve where they re-live Animals over and over and over until *everyone* finds ten good things to say about it" What? You mean you think Animals can be improved? How can perfection be improved? -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption: The Blake's 7 and Babylon 5 convention 23-25 February 2001, Ashford, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Re: [B7L] Torture
by Sally Manton 04 Feb '01

04 Feb '01

Neil wrote: <Basically, A-C or A-V h/c fic is about the symbolic death of a cold, arrogant, supercilious bastard and his symbolic rebirth as an understanding nice guy.> <gurgle> which may explain why I've never been able to take either ... what a wonderfully ghastly idea, Neil. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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