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Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by Natasa Tucev 03 Feb '01

03 Feb '01

I still have some 372 posts to read before I catch up, but still let me partake. I think about a month ago before this debate began, Mistral pointed out (quite correctly) that Meegat was a guardian of societal values. So why not assume that she was a priestess of a matriarchal religion, in which case Avon's role would be the role of the Sacred King. The Sacred King is worshipped, treated with greatest honour, but at the end of his rule he is sacrificed to the Mother Goddess. Avon doesn't exactly die, but he does get nearly killed by deadly radiation after he has performed his function. So why not represent this as a case of a man brutally misused by a woman? (Just for a change...) N.

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Re: [B7L] Re: If You weren't the Only Avon in the World (was Deliverance)
by Sally Manton 03 Feb '01

03 Feb '01

After I wrote: <How about the fun we'd have if we substituted Piri for someone (Cally?)> Frances asked: <What fun was that then?> Well, for a start, we'd get the full - errrmmmmm - glory of her simpering and fluttering and whining 'poor-little-me' act, not only with Avon but with Fearless Leader (though now I think about it, it might even *work* with Gan!!! Oh joy ...). Jenna's enjoyment at having the only other woman on the ship a brainless, fingernails-on-blackboard-voiced twit would be wonderful too. Vila would of course want to run bets on [a] whether she was turfed out an airlock by Avon *or* Blake (or - in a rare display of total unity - both) and how long it would take before they did. But one would of course give the little dear some irreplacable skill (please DON'T ask me what) so that they had to put up with her for as long as possible ... (She could, of course, then turn into the almost as annoying gloat-until-the-Cavalry-get-here Cancer, I guess ...) Please note however, that this is only the opinion of one firm devotee of driving Our Heroes to distraction ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Groundhog Day
by Predatrix 03 Feb '01

03 Feb '01

> Oh, what a great idea. I love time loop stories with a great passion. We > must have one. Nay, a whole zine of them. > > Alison I rather like the idea, but I fear we will end up with nineteen rewrites of _Blake_ (including the obligatory 'gotcha!' one from Bryn where Avon makes an effort and doesn't kill Blake on Gauda Prime sixteen times but Blake gets killed off in the last line anyway) and one attempt at romantic comedy which is equally made up of witty dialogue and sheer filth. Actually, might be worth doing! Cheers, Pred'x (...strangely interested in reading and/or writing this 'zine...)

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Re: [B7L] Torture
by Ellynne G. 03 Feb '01

03 Feb '01

On Sat, 3 Feb 2001 09:57:14 +1100 Kathryn Andersen <kat(a)foobox.net> writes: Why Avon rather than Blake? And if you say "he > suffers beautifully", that isn't an answer. What makes Avon's > suffering > more appealing than Blake's? Well, for actual _physical_ suffering, I'll choose just about anyone rather than Avon, it seems. Whether I like his coping mechanisms or not, I think they're up to it. Emotional suffering is another story. I like to have Avon's friends suffer terribly and Avon blame himself, no matter how unreasonably. I'm afraid it's a very bad thing to be a friend of Avon in any story I write and, personally, I would run for my life if I were one. In order of who suffers and why. Blake: GP. Bullets Gan: Earth. Ceiling. Jenna: Occassional stomping through unpleasant quarries and bad weather. Too likely to spit in torturer's eye, get loose, and do nasty things to the torturer. Sometimes dies in a tragic (but usually heroic) manner before GP. Vila: Vila tends to be humorous under stress. He can generally only suffer as comedy relief. If I were going to do something nonfunny bad to him, I might let the master thief's hands get permanently broken (but I really doubt I could be that mean to him), taking away one of his few defenses against an unkind universe. Dayna: Nothing in any way resembling animals. She's perfectly free to start feeling guilty about the body count she's left behind her or intends to start adding to. Soolin: Survivor's guilt is always good. And I think, given what she's been through, the tough act is partly that - and must be underlined by the fear of meeting up with those who can crush it as effectively as the creeps who killed her family did. She's got to be afraid of powerlessness in a different way than Avon. Cally: Cally frequently gets stomped on in my stories. THere are lots of reasons, including how guilty Avon feels. Avon: Avon is convinced of his omniscience whenever it fails. If things go wrong when he's in charge, it's his fault. Hurt the people he doesn't admit are his friends, and he suffers beautifully. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: [B7L] Why not Captain Tarrant (was Deliverance)
by Mac4781＠aol.com 03 Feb '01

03 Feb '01

In a message dated 02/02/2001 6:32:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, kat(a)foobox.net writes: > A typical INTJ -- reluctant to be a leader, but when everyone else > proves to be incompetent and not getting the job done, moves in just so > that it will actually get done right. Except he didn't get it right any more often than any of our other rebel leaders. Avon lost Liberator, Cally and Scorpio (to name just a few of the times when he was less than competent). Carol Mc

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Re: If You weren't the Only Avon in the World (was Deliverance)
by Frances Bishop 03 Feb '01

03 Feb '01

Sally wrote : >How about the fun we'd have if we substituted Piri for someone (Cally?) What fun was that then? Cheers Frances

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Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by Tavia Chalcraft 03 Feb '01

03 Feb '01

One could posit that Nation was sending up the sexist viewpoint by his blatantly ridiculously sexist script. I thought that the only reason they made Avon into the God figure in Deliverance was so that Blake could take the major role in Orac without having radiation sickness? No cunning here I fear. Still it's a much stronger episode as a result. Tavia

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Deliverance
by Sally Manton 03 Feb '01

03 Feb '01

Kathryn wrote: >"The rocket represents a phallus." >"Does not!" >"Does too!" >"Does not!" etc (yawn) ... Okay, okay ... then how about the phallic significance of his Big Gun in 'Blake'? <veg> _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Torture
by Cheryl _ 03 Feb '01

03 Feb '01

> Then I realized the common denominator of all three > victims; they're all > intellectuals, geeks. Not that Blake isn't a > philosopher, but you've > got to admit that Avon is more geeky than Blake. > And with the others > the difference is even more obvious. > > So why is it that the H/C writers have it in for > geeks? LOL Hello Kathryn, I'm new here but I have to say that I am very much enjoying the content of this list and I had to respond to your post even though I don't know the answer to your question - it's just that I've never heard of Avon being referred to as a geek before. I love it! I hope I don't come across as too Avon orientated in conversations on this list because I do like all the characters (some less than others) but Avon is my absolute outright favourite - Avon the geek - ROTFL I have a somewhat weak possible answer to your question Maybe it's because these characters(and I have to confess to not watching these other shows you mentioned so I am assuming the other characters are intelligent men of the ilk of Avon) are always in control of situations that call for clear thought, that the writers find them perfect candidates for situations where their intellect not only can't help them but actually suffers along with the physical because they find themselves in this situation - Again I have not read any hurt/comfort stories - so this is strictly a guess. Cheryl. _____________________________________________________________________________ http://entertainment.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Entertainment - Feeling a little bored? Need some entertainment?

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Re: [B7L] Why not Captain Tarrant (was Deliverance)
by Marian de Haan 03 Feb '01

03 Feb '01

Wendy wrote re Avon wanting the Liberator: >I can hear you saying right now, "Oh, that doesn't mean he wants >to be a leader, just that he wants the ship." OK, so how does he expect to run a big ship like that all on his lonesome< In Horizon it is stated that he can handle the ship with the help of the computers, provided he keeps out of the way of Federation craft. >(and Vila in Star One makes it clear that the crew are part of the bargain struck), and why, when Blake is finally gone, doesn't he just let Captain Tarrant take charge and either go off to do his own thing or stuck around and baited him from the sidelines?< That's exactly what he did after they stopped searching for Blake in Volcano. At the start of Dawn of the Gods Tarrant is at Liberator's helm while Avon is playing galactic monopoly with the rest of the crew. He steps in when it's clear that Tarrant is at a loss about the mysterious course changes, but looks rather annoyed for having to abandon the game. :-) In Harvest of Kairos Avon leaves command of Liberator entirely to Tarrant, even to the point of not interfering during the space battle. IMHO he was testing Tarrant there, and it isn't his fault that Tarrant failed the test. In City Avon has left the negotiations to acquire those crystals to Tarrant, which to me looks like another test. But again, Tarrant doesn't deliver, landing them with no Vila and no crystals. IMO Avon may be excused for deciding that Tarrant isn't up to the task. Even after this Avon remains reluctant to take up the leadership role, leaving as much of the decision making and initiatives as he can to the others. To me this indicates that he'd prefer to leave the command of Liberator to Tarrant or any other of the crew, and is only taking up the task - against his will - when none of them proves up to the job. Marian

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