Blakes7 December 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

67 participants
252 discussions

Re: [B7L] Mary-Sue
by Sally M 30 Dec '01

30 Dec '01

Nico wrote: <I'm basically adding her because I think it stretches probability too much to use existing characters like Jenna (so Blake lied about her death) or Avalon (though I am using her in one story) or a miraculously saved Cally. And the crew *are* going to meet new people, stands to reason (she says, desperately).> Absolutely. And a good number of the rebels in the series *are* women. I find it helps to base original characters on real (preferably not too pretty*) people I know, at least physically - it makes it less likely that I'll idealise them or morph them into myself. Though there are always *bits* of oneself in nearly character one writes, I think - certainly those that I work hard on. Even the crew (my version of Vila's voice is decidedly different from other people's, the rhythms and words and ideas, because they have to come from *my* rhythms and words and ideas). It's probably more noticeable when the characters is entirely your own creation, but there's nothing wrong with that. <Mind you, I've also created Vila's mother, and she's rather like mine. Is there a term for that? :-)> That depends on how nicely or otherwise you'd describe your mother <veg> Sally *though, as I have noted, there *are* no ugly revolutionaries in space ... _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

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Mary-Sue
by feste＠brandywine.net 30 Dec '01

30 Dec '01

>Excuse my ignorance; I've only been in fandom a few months, but can someone >tell me about Mary-Sue? I guessed a while back that it was self-insertion, >usually wishful thinking (going by the few stories I encountered her in), >but was why Mary-Sue? Was there an original Mary-Sue who wrote one? You're right in your definition of Mary Sue; Paula Smith apparently first used the name in a brief parody she wrote in Trek fandom years ago. I wrote about The Dear Girl in an essay at http://www.merrycoz.org/papers/MARYSUE.HTM >I've also come across Peggy-Sue Servalan in the Bizarro zines. Is this a >variation on the theme? Mind you, the Bizarro stories seem to have a lot of >fans and writers lurking lightly-disguised in them. And, aren't they fun? feste feste(a)brandywine.net "Figs are sweet, but fictions are sweeter." -- William Makepeace Thackeray

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RE: Re: [B7L] Where to publish?
by jacquispeel＠netscape.net 29 Dec '01

29 Dec '01

Kathryn Andersen <kat_lists(a)katspace.com> wrote: >On Fri, Dec 28, 2001 at 04:51:42PM -0500, jacquispeel(a)netscape.net wrote: >> "Sally M" <smanton(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> ><grin> you're too kind, but then you haven't *seen* the half-finished >> >burbles on my half-drive (or still in my head) that I mentioned. Though I >> >still have a fondness for the blatant Mary-Sue fantasy (unwritten, of course >> >- doesn't everyone have at least one?) where the Original Female Character >> >(small, round, clutzy, absent-minded, makes Vila look brave) loses Orac's >> >key, breaks her teleport bracelet, loses her teleport bracelet, loses all >> >the teleport bracelets, breaks Orac, loses Avon, breaks *Zen*, loses the >> >entire crew ... and never does recall the vital piece of information which >> >both the good guys and the bad guys are trying to get from her :-) >> > >> >> >> I would say that she is not a Mary Sue, but a different sort of >> character perhaps? > >Yes, it isn't a Mary Sue, that's a "self insertion" character. > >The classic Mary Sue is too perfect to be true. > >Kathryn Andersen Do it right & it could be spoof (think 'Naked Gun') Jacqui -- __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

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Mary-Sue
by Nico Mody-Nikoloff 29 Dec '01

29 Dec '01

Excuse my ignorance; I've only been in fandom a few months, but can someone tell me about Mary-Sue? I guessed a while back that it was self-insertion, usually wishful thinking (going by the few stories I encountered her in), but was why Mary-Sue? Was there an original Mary-Sue who wrote one? I've also come across Peggy-Sue Servalan in the Bizarro zines. Is this a variation on the theme? Mind you, the Bizarro stories seem to have a lot of fans and writers lurking lightly-disguised in them. Nico

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RE: [B7L] Where to publish?
by jacquispeel＠netscape.net 29 Dec '01

29 Dec '01

"Sally M" <smanton(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >Nicola wrote: ><You amaze me! Star 4 is one of the zines I've bought, and I assumed from >your wonderful Christmas story in it, and those I've found on-line, that you >were a very experienced writer.> > ><grin> you're too kind, but then you haven't *seen* the half-finished >burbles on my half-drive (or still in my head) that I mentioned. Though I >still have a fondness for the blatant Mary-Sue fantasy (unwritten, of course >- doesn't everyone have at least one?) where the Original Female Character >(small, round, clutzy, absent-minded, makes Vila look brave) loses Orac's >key, breaks her teleport bracelet, loses her teleport bracelet, loses all >the teleport bracelets, breaks Orac, loses Avon, breaks *Zen*, loses the >entire crew ... and never does recall the vital piece of information which >both the good guys and the bad guys are trying to get from her :-) > I would say that she is not a Mary Sue, but a different sort of character perhaps? Jacqui -- __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

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Where to publish?
by Sally M 29 Dec '01

29 Dec '01

Nicola wrote: <You amaze me! Star 4 is one of the zines I've bought, and I assumed from your wonderful Christmas story in it, and those I've found on-line, that you were a very experienced writer.> <grin> you're too kind, but then you haven't *seen* the half-finished burbles on my half-drive (or still in my head) that I mentioned. Though I still have a fondness for the blatant Mary-Sue fantasy (unwritten, of course - doesn't everyone have at least one?) where the Original Female Character (small, round, clutzy, absent-minded, makes Vila look brave) loses Orac's key, breaks her teleport bracelet, loses her teleport bracelet, loses all the teleport bracelets, breaks Orac, loses Avon, breaks *Zen*, loses the entire crew ... and never does recall the vital piece of information which both the good guys and the bad guys are trying to get from her :-) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

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Re: [B7L] MS for hire (was: Where to publish?)
by Sally M 28 Dec '01

28 Dec '01

Helen wrote: <How about one where Mary-Sue befriends and then betrays the crew, makes off with the instructions on how to built a teleport, sells the instructions to the Federation, steals Orac, and finally dies horribly as a result of some security program Avon put on Orac so one of his own crew wouldn't nick it?> That's more of a Mary-Servalan, isn't it? (OTOH, she'd get to wear much more lovingly invented clothes than your average MSue). <Or does Mary-Sue just need a good dose of Prozac?> This would quite often be a good idea ... personally, I'd want Valium boosters before setting foot on the Liberator. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

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Mary Sue (was Where to Publish)
by Ellynne G. 28 Dec '01

28 Dec '01

On Fri, 28 Dec 2001 02:50:30 +0000 "Sally M" <smanton(a)hotmail.com> writes: > <grin> you're too kind, but then you haven't *seen* the > half-finished > burbles on my half-drive (or still in my head) that I mentioned. > Though I > still have a fondness for the blatant Mary-Sue fantasy (unwritten, > of course > - doesn't everyone have at least one?) OK, I realize I'm helplessly naive (I just found out one little bit of Yiddish slang I picked up in high school [besides meaning what I thought it did] was also hideously obscene, so you could say I'm exceptionally in-tune right now with the fact that I'm hopeless), but I just can't build up an aversion to Mary Sue, especially the character Sally just described who is _not_ a fan disguised as Wonder Woman sneaking into the story to sweep the character of choice of his feet. And how on earth does a writer put in any original characters without being accused of creating Mary Sues? Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

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Re: [B7L] Favourite PGPs
by Ellynne G. 28 Dec '01

28 Dec '01

Just wondering but, even more than what are people's favorite PGPs, what makes them people's favorites? Do some people like one kind over others (dark continuations [just when you thought it couldn't get _worse_ scenarios] vs upbeat [invasion from the Smiley Face universe] vs restoring the status quo [for any of the seasons])? Or is it a mix depening more on the quality of the story? Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

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Re: out of print fanzines - NZ Lend Lib Suggesti
by Meg 27 Dec '01

27 Dec '01

> David writes > I know a contact in New Zealand who is thinking of setting up a Lending > Library of B7 Zines. He already has a handful of items to lend. I don't know if anyone in Australia has done this but for the record, I'm interested. If no one knows of someone else setting up one here, is there anyone who'd be interested in working with me in such a project? FYI, I'm in Melbourne. ;) Conventions are indeed a great way to get zines. Unfortunately, it's expensive to go to conventions in the USA or in England. Airfares from Australia are *substantial* and for those of us without much money, conventions are very out of reach. :( And there simply isn't many conventions in Australia and none that I've heard of a B7 contingent attending. *sigh* (If anyone knows otherwise, contradict me please! ;)) Commenting on other points rasing in this thread, I prefer to read fiction on paper. I too tend to print out stories from the mailing lists if they're long and I really want to read them. But the internet is cheap for me. Much cheaper than zines. Meg. meg(a)xenonbase.net

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Blakes7 December 2001