Blakes7 February 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

80 participants
929 discussions

Re: [B7L] Sally-speak
by Marian de Haan 24 Feb '01

24 Feb '01

Shane wrote: >I once saw someone on the Lyst referring to some bloke or other on the series wearing "trousers so tight you could tell his religion." Made *me* wince, that's for sure...< I found that a delightful lucid and witty description. Made me grin all through the day. Different perception :-) Marian

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Re: [B7L] Wendy's complaint (was Sally-speak)
by Fiona Moore 24 Feb '01

24 Feb '01

> --- littles(a)lycos.co.uk wrote: > From: > > The bit where it all seems to fall apart, though, is > > the "knock knock, > > there's a wolf at the door" post. Now I haven't got > > the text of that handy, > > cause I can't seem to get that far on the archive, > > but some people on the Lyst > > seem to have decided to take it as an insult. Me, it > > reminded me a lot of a > > riddle I heard a while back. The question was, "Are > > we wolves or lambs?" and > > the answer was "both." Or, like Pogo said, "we have > > met the enemy and he is > > us." > > Does rather fit in with her interest in Freudian symbolism, actually, come to that. Fiona The Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane Available for public perusal at http://nyder.r67.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: [B7L] Rumours of Death - the rewrite
by Sally Manton 24 Feb '01

24 Feb '01

Harriet wrote: <"Rumours of Death" by Harriet Monkhouse> <gurgle> loved it. Want to try 'Blake' just for me? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: Re: [B7L] The Gospel
by Fiona Moore 24 Feb '01

24 Feb '01

----- Original Message ----- From: Fiona Moore <nydersdyner(a)yahoo.co.uk> > --- Betty Ragan <ragan(a)sdc.org> wrote: > From: Betty > > > "mainstream opinion" on the Lyst. For instance: > > > > These really surprise me, because I don't agree with > > most of them, and I > > *certainly* didn't think most of them were > > "mainstream opinion." Well, I've been on the Lyst for about a year now, some times more active than others, and those have been the opinions I've seen ventured most often. > > I think the Avon-Meegat scenes in "Deliverance" are > > fun. But in the defending-Deliverance camp, that seemed to be the minority opinion-- most people whom I saw on it tended to take a more serious line. > > > -Same goes for Avon and Servalan > > > > The lust I'd agree with there. I think it comes > > through fairly strongly > > on screen. This one probably *is* a mainstream > > opinion. I'd actually > > be quite interested in hearing what you think *is* > > going on between > > them, if you don't see a genuine sexual attraction. I see a decided sexual, and otherwise, attraction to Avon on Servalan's part. For Avon's part, I see something a bit more ambiguous-- he seems aware of her attraction, and not above using it if need be, but he also seems to realize that she is incredibly dangerous-- see Aftermath. > > > -Blake is a noble idealist whose singlemindedness > > frequently blinds him to > > > other people's needs, making him cold and > > insensitive > > > > Hmm. I think people's views of Blake differ a > > *lot*. Heck, mine > > fluctuate all over the place, especially when I'm > > reading/writing > > fanfic. Again, fair enough, but this the view I've seen expressed most often. > > > -H/C fiction is a great way of exploring the more > > intimate side of a > > > character, and neither it nor slash particularly > > offend anyone > > > > I think all of us are very much aware that some > > people are offended by > > slash. Me, I *wasn't* aware that some people were > > offended by h/c. My > > personal opinion is that both h/c and slash are > > *valid* ways of > > exploring the characters This is a genuine and serious question, I am *not* taking the mick-- how is it valid to the character to read in a relationship which most people seem to agree isn't there-- including the people who write those stories? I mean, I personally can see it as a fun thing to do for a bit of fantasy, but I don't see the character-exploration bit. > > Hmm. I like "The Daemons," too... So do I :). > > > Similarly, I've heard from other people that when > > > a line in "Mark of Kane" suggested (didn't state, > > just *suggested,* since > > > there's no reason to assume Kane was telling the > > truth) that Gan might have > > > had a dark and evil side, a lot of people reacted > > with shock, dismay and > > > denials in the letters-of-comment in Horizon > > instead of discussing the > > > evidence pro and con. > > > > Hmm. Personally, I found that line *really* > > disturbing, and all the > > more so because it's so very, very *possible*. Me too <shudder>. Fiona The Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane Available for public perusal at http://nyder.r67.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: [B7L] Re: Gay Subtexts
by Mac4781＠aol.com 23 Feb '01

23 Feb '01

Dana wrote: > Sure. But what's so great about canon? I didn't say canon was great. But since you ask, I like B7 for the canon that we see on the screen. That's what drew me to B7. I asked the question because I wasn't really sure what your answer to Fiona's question meant. I appreciate your clarifying the matter. Carol Mc

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Re: Fw: [B7L] Chemistry
by Sally Manton 23 Feb '01

23 Feb '01

littles(a)lycos.co.uk wrote: <Explain to me what sort of chemistry there could be between two straight actors playing two straight men.> 'Chemistry' has been seen between just about every popular pairing of actors, whether the same sex or not, whether platonic or not, since the turn of the century (that is what 'buddy movies' are *based* on, in my opinion, though others may differ). What the viewer makes of that chemistry is entirely up to them. Millions of film-goers saw romantic chemistry between Doris Day and Rock Hudson' am I to say they were wrong because [a] I don't, and [b] we now know he was gay? As anyone on FC will confirm, I'm actually of the opinion that the entire crew were celibate for the entire 4 years (with the exceptions of Vila in 'City' and Tarrant in 'Sand'). Other people see a romantic tension between Avon and Cally, despite the fact that she's supposed to be an alien (but luckily, not *very* alien :-). To quote the FAQ, written by Sue Clerc years ago: "Blake and Avon give off more sparks than California in brush fire season and the tension between them creates a rich subtext. One of them is an extremely intelligent, arrogant outlaw with a short temper and a ruthless streak. He can really be a bastard sometimes. And Avon is just as bad (and gets better lines). In spite of the pyrotechnics between them, however, there's a bond that leads Avon to risk everything, and everyone, to get to Blake. Twice." The thing is, it's also a very *complicated* chemistry, and the result is people can see anything they want in it (I know one person who thinks they genuinely loathed each other from the moment they set eyes on each other). That's one of the reasons *why* there are so many stories centred on them; so many people can get so many different things from what they see on the TV. Me: <even as I (being hetero) have one for pairings such as Avon and Servalan, where many many others see it - including the actors involved - and I don't.> littles(a)lycos.co.uk <Passionate kiss in Aftermath... passionate kiss in Deathwatch... but both between Avon and Servalan. No heavy snogs for Avon and Blake that I can recall. Unless you know better?> I didn't say that the script - and the film - clearly indicates that they are interested in each other. Of course they were. I said I saw no chemistry; that is, while I know I'm supposed to believe - because of the snogging - that it's a passionate relationship, I saw scenes between them that were as exciting for me as watching Doris and Rock entwined. Avon and Servalan's interest in each other is canonical, but simply doesn't seem to push the same fanfictional buttons, gen or adult, as Avon and Blake's, or Avon's and Cally's for that matter (my data on this is Sarah Thompson's lists - covering adult - and the reading I've done). That's why I said what I did. Chemistry is a very very *personal* thing, it's for each viewer to decide for themselves what is an interesting relationship and what isn't, and what they think that relationship is made up of. And ... to turn the thread slightly ... it's not just romantic/sexual chemistry. Reading the archives, I came across a plaintive little cry of "doesn't anyone else think Avon *didn't* hate Vila?" and a huge range of responses ranging from "I think it's a brotherly thing" to "they enjoy each other's company" to "man and his dog, that covers it" to "oh, not hate, but he thinks Vila's useless". Anyone want to talk about this? What do you think the Mutual Disparagement Society *actually* thought of each other behind all the insults? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Pardon my ignorance, but...
by Sondra Sweigman 23 Feb '01

23 Feb '01

In following the h/c/S&M discussion, I've encountered the following 3 expressions: "gay-dar", "S&M-dar", "lesbian-dar." I know what gay, lesbian and S&M mean--but what, pray tell, is "dar"? Sondra

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Re: [B7L] What's Silly ? (was Excalibur, Blake's 7 (but no Zulus))
by Sally Manton 23 Feb '01

23 Feb '01

Leah wrote: <How can *anything* be more silly than a giant, inflatable grasshopper that eats red rock candy?> I do recall a set of elderly SF books my mother owned, where the chief aliens were [a] an intelligent furry 4 foot toad and [b] a fluffy pink cloud that thought it was God (it was voted into the job by other fluffy pink clouds) :-) And we think Moloch was bad ... Actually, for someone who has previously pleaded for no giant spiders in fanfic (the writer not being on a B7 budget, after all) I found myself staring at a capeworm the other day (before removing it from my houseplant) and thinking "now *that* would make a terrific alien thingy". (For those who haven't had the pleasure, it looks like a large, translucent slug, and 8definitely* not of this world. Harmless, except to my plant). _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Freedom City
by Tiger M 23 Feb '01

23 Feb '01

Several people have asked about Freedom City. It's a forum where people can discuss relationships in the B7 universe, including sex, both het and slash, as well as other topics that have been or might be sources of unwelcome friction here on Lysator. It's a supplement to this list. Discussion and fanfic are welcome on FC, flaming and trolling are not. Not everyone on FC is a slash fan; some people just like the relaxed atmosphere there. Those who are interested joining need to contact me, either at this address or at Tigerm1019(a)aol.com, with a statement that they are over 18 and legally adult in the area where they live. This is so I can cover myself legally should the need arise. :-) BTW, you'll probably get a faster response if you contact me at the AOL address; I just use this one to post from because AOL 6.0 and Lysator's software do not get along. Tiger M, Freedom City list-owner __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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Re: Re: [B7L] Thread hijacking (was Re: Sally-speak)
by Fiona Moore 23 Feb '01

23 Feb '01

----- Original Message ----- From: Fiona Moore <nydersdyner(a)yahoo.co.uk> > > frankly, you don't have a > > right to. If you want to have *private* > > conversations "over in the corner", > > then why are you posting them on a huge mailing > > list? <drily> By the same token, then, one might ask why people post lecherous remarks about Avon... Fiona The Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane Available for public perusal at http://nyder.r67.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Blakes7 February 2001