Blakes7 February 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

80 participants
929 discussions

Re: [B7L] Question
by Mac4781＠aol.com 24 Feb '01

24 Feb '01

Shane wrote: > Diane has everything to do with it, as she has a very well-known policy > against slash, Whatever Diane's policy is (and I'm not going to speak for her), it has nothing to do with the thread. Annie was only asking about *your* statement and *your* policy. For someone who didn't like it when Wendy's words were twisted, you seem to have no problem culling up another fan and speaking for her. Which is what particularly disappointed me in your statement. Carol Mc

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Re: Gay Subtexts
by Fiona Moore 24 Feb '01

24 Feb '01

----- Original Message ----- From: Tavia Chalcraft <tavia(a)btinternet.com> To: 'Lysator mailing list' <blakes7(a)lists.lysator.liu.se> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 1:05 AM Subject: Re: [B7L] Sally-speak > Fiona: > >I once asked him if he saw any of the gay subtext in > >B7 which many fans say they do. He replied that > >he detected no sexual tension *at all* between Blake and Avon. > >Now,before you say "but the actors weren't gay, so of course > >he didn't," this doesn't always read. > > This could of course be bad acting. I detected no sexual (or any other) > tension between Anna and Avon, but put that down to poor acting or at least > uninspired casting. It could :). But the thing is, it's conveyed in other ways. Avon is seen in bed with Anna. They talk about love. They embrace when they meet. He cradles her in his arms. She says "When I was with you I was always Anna." I think you'd have to work hard to deny that there's an implied hetero/sexual relationship between Avon and Anna. My gay friend is, I think, just as attuned to behavioural cues as to "Chemistry," and still didn't see any way of reading B and A's relationship as sexual, even taking the "bad acting" argument into account (which I don't see. PD and GT are at *least* as good actors as Scott Fredericks, who as I've said successfully pulled off playing a character as bisexual despite being straight). Possible counterargument: "But you can't just come out and show two men in bed in 1970s TV!" Yes, but there are other ways of doing it which make it clear that the relationship between the men is sexual. Egrorian calls Pinter his "golden-haired stripling" and tells about how they ran away together. Krantor langorously offers Toise an--aphrodisiac--pateki-cake. In another series, Willow and Tara hold hands, are seen moving into a flat together (while Tara complains that she thinks Willow's friends are uncomfortable about them living together) and the sexual subtext of the scenes where they cast spells are pretty obvious-- you don't have to have lesbian-dar of any sort to realise what is being implied. My point is, if the writers/actors/whoever had intended the characters to read as gay/involved, they could have done so. But they didn't. Fiona The Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane Available for public perusal at http://nyder.r67.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: [B7L] WARNING: Discussion about slash (was Re: The Gospel)
by Betty Ragan 24 Feb '01

24 Feb '01

Fiona wrote: > Thanks for that, Betty. I really appreciated your > honest, thoughtful and intelligent post. Whew! <Wiping of sweat from brow> :) -- Betty Ragan ** bragan(a)nrao.edu ** http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~bragan Not speaking for my employers, officially or otherwise. "Seeing a rotten picture for the special effects is like eating a tough steak for the smothered onions..." -- Isaac Asimov

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Question (was Sally-speak)
by Mac4781＠aol.com 24 Feb '01

24 Feb '01

Shane wrote: > Never said I wanted to change your mind. If you want to try to change mine, > feel free, but what you said goes double. I think you're confusing me with > Diane Gies. Diane had nothing to do with this thread. I find your comment to be in very poor taste. Carol Mc

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Re: [B7L] Thread hijacking
by Ashton7＠aol.com 24 Feb '01

24 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/23/01 7:53:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, nydersdyner(a)yahoo.co.uk writes: << No. But they've certainly come over all offended that some people might have considered one or two of the things they've said a bit in poor taste to post to a list of over 300 people worldwide... >> Well, was what they said against the rules of this list? And, if so, did the moderator (quite correctly), ask them not to do it again? No? Then, I ask you... who is in the wrong here? Yes? Then, it isn't a problem, is it, and presumably the moderator would correct anyone who did it again. Have I missed something? Are you, Fiona, the moderator of this list? Annie

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Re: [B7L] Re: Gay Subtexts
by littles＠lycos.co.uk 24 Feb '01

24 Feb '01

> Carol Mc asked: > > > > Dana, do you accept that there is a > difference between raw canon and what > > individual viewers think they see/might like > to see on the screen? That > on a > > very basic level there is a show that is put > together by a creative team > > (writers, directors, actors, etc) and that > team considered the Blake and > Avon > > relationship to be strictly platonic. > Sure. But what's so great about canon? I think Dana Shilling is right. Avon is homosexual. However he isn't having a physical relationship with Blake. He is having one with Orac. I've just watched the final episode of the series, and Avon's lust for Orac is there for everyone to plainly see. When Avon confers with Orac, he is the one who lays his hands on the machine; he straps Orac down with red straps-- clearly a bondage fantasy-- and later, when the ship is crashing, it is Orac who Avon saves. Later, on the planet Gauda Prime, Avon picks up Orac with his gun unsheathed, with obvious phallic symbolism. There are numerous scenes of Avon carrying Orac in a provocative manner, sometimes at crotch height. Avon also hides Orac under a bush. I don't think I have to make that any more explicit than it already is. At the end of the story, Orac disappears. This is because Avon is concerned for Orac's welfare and has obviously asked him to shrink down to a very small size so that Avon, for Orac's own protection, can insert him into a bodily cavity. The reason why Avon kills Blake is jealousy. Orac was Blake's lover through season 2, and therefore Avon always felt second-best during the relationship which he and Orac enjoyed during season 3 and 4. Some of you may believe that my theory is inaccurate and that I may be misrepresenting certain aspects of the episode. You might even suggest that "Terminal" totally contradicts my theory in that Orac is abandoned by Avon on the Liberator when he journeys down to Terminal to rescue Blake. My answer to you on this one, however, is simple. This episode is not canon. I do not consider this episode canon. La la la, I can't hear yoooouuu! Those of you who think I have far too much time on my hands are probably right. Shane "I have much to do, you have engaged my circuits on my petty affairs for far too long!"-- Orac

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Re: [B7L] Books and Movies
by Marian de Haan 24 Feb '01

24 Feb '01

Dana wrote: >I think it's an interesting commentary that one can watch all 52 episodes without being able to say for sure what they use for books< In Sarcophagus, in the scene where Avon is trying the buttons on the blue egg, Cally enters carrying a cumbersome object, saying: "I've finished with the book screen, Dayna. You said you wanted it." It looks vaguely like a microfilm reader, rather uncomfortable to hold and not the sort of thing you can read in bed, but I assume it was meant as the bookform of the future. Marian

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Re: Books and Movies
by seven＠gaudaprime.com 24 Feb '01

24 Feb '01

Dana wrote I think it's an interesting commentary that one can watch all 52 episodes without being able to say for sure what they use for books --I think the typical fanfic solution is to refer to "book placques" and/or "datacubes." We know from canon that there are Walkman- like objects for playing music. David In Project Avalon, in addition to Servalan's Walkman thingy, there are four hand-held devices with key input. The last two devices were used to calculate teleport co-ordinates. Travis used the second - a basic graphic of it is below - to punch in data while he looked at the screen at the lower right of the device, or at the screen on the wall. None of these could be considered an e-book. Then there is the device, with dimensions of approx. 20 * 12 * 5 centimetres, which Avon gives to Blake in the following scene from Project Avalon Gan: Blake, there are four...five interceptors orbiting the atmosphere now. They are all below the horizon at the moment. Blake: Track them. Gan: Right. Avon: And don't imagine they will maintain the same orbit. [holds up device] I have summarized the relevant data. ... We have come at the worst time, of course. The northern hemisphere is just entering its winter cycle. They call it the Long Cold, something of an understatement, it lasts the equivalent of eight and a half Earth years. Blake: Does it support any intelligent life? Avon: ... There are humanoid creatures called sub-terrons. They live in caves. Quite what that says for their intelligence, I really wouldn't know. Blake: Why are the Federation there? Avon: Minerals. [hands object to Blake] About thirty years ago it was discovered that deposits were seeping down into the ice [Blake reads, pushes button, click] and forming gem stones of outstanding purity [pushes button three times] and hardness. They are called 'Ice Crystals'. [pushes two buttons once each] The Federation uses them in heavy duty lasers. They are mined by the sub-terrons as a slave labour force. [two clicks] Blake: Ahh, that is why Avalon is here. Avon: Perhaps, but the ice crystals are unique and ... valuable. Blake: No, Avalon has started resistance movements on a dozen Federation planets. Avon: Another idealist, [push] poor but honest. I shall look forward to our meeting with eager [lowers device] anticipation. Blake: Is your anticipation eager enough to come down there with me? David Blake pushes a button half a dozen times, which action I take to be scrolling down the written and graphic data, while he reads Avon's hyper-text summary. Dana I assume that there's some equivalent of movie theaters because of the advantages of public entertainments (and, from the government viewpoint, the greater ease of censoring the prints of a movie in X number of theaters than self-selected video rentals or downloads). David I know of only one mention of a circus-like spectacle: from Death-Watch Del Tarrant: It will be a big occasion. Avon: A ritual war is bound to generate a great deal of excitement. Vila: Back on Earth they used to say it was the most excitement you can have with your clothes on anywhere in the galaxy. Dayna: How very witty of them. Avon: No, he is right. The Teal-Vandor Convention was famous on Earth. The ultimate excitement. Cally: The ultimate excitement: watching two men kill each other? David The women, one from Auron, the other mainly from Sarran, do not show any interest in the Convention, but the men, who spent a fair amount of their lives on Earth, know about it. from Voice from the Past Cally: We need rest soon. Vila: Absolutely right. What I wouldn't give for a week at one of the old Federation Rest Centres: Sensory ecstasy hours, pleasure machines [sighs]. Cally: You have to accept these findings. Blake: I accept them but where are we going to find a centre that will take us in for a month's rest and rehabilitation? Vila: Well, that shouldn't be a problem. I mean, what is the point of being famous if you can't get a last minute booking? David Vila, officially a low-grade, takes for granted an official policy of near hedonism and assumes the others know of the Federation Rest Centres. Dana Or is one reason to use suppressants to eliminate the need for popular entertainment --even bread and circuses? David That sounds likely. Federation policy was unsuccessful in this area: from Way Back Blake: Why should the Administration try to drug us? Ravella: To keep control. They've been stepping up the suppressants because the number of dissidents is growing. from Warlord Avon: Finally, Zondor, latest victim of the Federation's pacification and control program. The drug is still Pylene-50. The concentration has been stepped up, however. David Since the dosage of the suppressants did not remain constant, the original dosage was pretty mild (or the latter dosage overdone). The purpose of the suppressants is perhaps some combination of keeping control and eliminating over time the need for entertainment. DC The Calculator of Travis - Project Avalon ______________________________________________________ | | |______________________________________________________| | _ _ _ | | |_| |_| |_| | | _ _ _ | | ______ |_| |_| |_| | | | | _ _ _ ______________ | | |______| |_| |_| |_| | | | | _ _ _ | | | | |_| |_| |_| |______________| | |______________________________________________________| Blake's e-Atlas - Project Avalon _____________________________________ / /| / / | / / | /____________________________________/ | | | | | _____ _____ _____ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |_____| |_____| |_____| | | | | | | _____ _____ _____ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |_____| |_____| |_____| | | | _______________________________ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | / | |_______________________________| | / | | / |___________________________________|/

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Re: [B7L] yet another request
by Sally Manton 24 Feb '01

24 Feb '01

If we are going to try and alter headings from now on, could everyone start by taking my name off all the ones flying about at the minute? Thank you. Normal service resuming now. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Thread hijacking
by Ashton7＠aol.com 24 Feb '01

24 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/23/01 4:17:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, nydersdyner(a)yahoo.co.uk writes: I (Annie) said: << > > frankly, you don't have a > > right to. If you want to have *private* > > conversations "over in the corner", > > then why are you posting them on a huge mailing > > list? and Fiona replied: << <drily> By the same token, then, one might ask why people post lecherous remarks about Avon... >> Um, sorry, I don't understand what you're getting at? The people posting lecherous remarks about Avon haven't expressed the desire to be allowed to have "private conversations over in the corner." At least not while I've been here in the past or now. Perhaps it is a series of postings I missed. The issue was whether or not people have a right to comment on and join a public conversation. If the lecherous remark is posted to the list at large, then I, as a list member, assume that I have a right to reply in any way I see fit (serious or humorous or lecherous or whatever) as long as I follow the basic rules of Calle's list. The same holds true for a serious conversation. A select few hereabouts seem to find that point of view annoying and I maintain that those people would be a lot happier if they learned to chill out and quit trying to control the responses of an entire mailing list of individuals. I think Carol McCoy's idea was the only solution, frankly. If you truly want to have serious conversations without being annoyed by list members who don't want to take you seriously, then you need to create a spin-off list that is moderated with rules that allow that to happen. I can think of no reason why you and Neil and anyone else who is bothered wouldn't *want* to do that... I've belonged to many, many lists in my years on the internet and I've yet to see this kind of "argument" succeed. If you don't like this list and the way it's set up to work, then the only solution is to create a list that fits your own personal parameters and invite like-minded people. It is an exercise in futility to try to control other people when it isn't even "your" list. The only way you could possibly make it happen for you on *this* list is to convince *Calle* to institute rules (and have him enforce them) that fit your vision of what the list should be. Is that going to happen? Annie

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Blakes7 February 2001