Blakes7 February 2001

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80 participants
929 discussions

do you want to defend Blake?
by Steve Rogerson 05 Feb '01

05 Feb '01

At Redemption we will be having a mock trial of Roj Blake as if he hadn't been killed in the final episode but was put on trial. We've got the prosecution sorted out, but we are after two people to help with this, one to play Blake and one to play Blake's defender. Any volunteers, email me offlist. The trial will take place on the Sunday, so there'll be plenty of time to talk with the others involved to work out what you need to do. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption: The Blake's 7 and Babylon 5 convention 23-25 February 2001, Ashford, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Redemption hotel rooms
by Steve Rogerson 05 Feb '01

05 Feb '01

OK, with a little bit of rejigging, we now have three rooms free on Friday and they will go on a first come, first served basis. We are still after others in single rooms who would be willing to share to free up some more rooms. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption: The Blake's 7 and Babylon 5 convention 23-25 February 2001, Ashford, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Further to the last post
by Fiona Moore 05 Feb '01

05 Feb '01

Something else occurs to me in all this. Neil points out that the men regress to the primitive, whereas A Woman keeps the dying flame of culture alight. Now, if Wendy will allow me to read an anthropological interpretation into this :-), I'd like to point out that in most societies, or at least Indo-European ones, women are seen as being the ones who are the guardians of culture, as they are the ones who educate the children; among immigrants to the UK, women are initially under a lot of social pressure not to assimilate, regardless of whether or not the men do, because this is usually seen as a situation in which one's culture is under threat. Now, interestingly enough, in these same cultures, although the women are the guardians of culture, it's the men, specifically the elite men, who guide what the values of that culture are. So, for instance, it's literary professors (most of whom are still male) who determine that Jane Austen is a great writer, even though it's women who pass on this value to the children and ensure that it stays in their society. Sound a lot like some bird safeguarding the gene banks and some bloke coming along and firing them off? Fiona The Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane Available for public perusal at http://nyder.r67.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Deliverance (Mr Humphries)?
by Fiona Moore 05 Feb '01

05 Feb '01

Trying again after having FINALLY sorted my Outlook Express settings out (grumble grumble-- new computer)... To add to Neil's argument, I'd like to point out something that the sociologist Erving Goffman said about gender roles in a study of advertisements. He noted that certain stereotyped roles are set up between men and women in advertising photos (e.g. man speaking, woman listening). He also noticed that these were sometimes reversed, but that when this happened, the viewer of the image, knowing the conventions of the advertising photo, would see the reversed image *with the conventional image in mind.* So if, for instance, we saw Mr Humphries rescuing Xena, we would be seeing that image knowing that the "normal" version of events would be James Kirk rescuing Uhura, and bearing it in mind on some level. This is why you often get that sort of role reversal in comedies-- or, to pick up on Neil's reference to H. Rider Haggard, why She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed is such a disturbing figure. Or, to put it another way: if it had been Vila or Gan in the "saviour role," we would be viewing it knowing that *conventionally* it should have been Avon or Blake, and our interpretations of it would stem from that fact. If you don't believe me, go back and watch "City at the Edge of the World" again. Now *there's* a story bearing a bit of looking at. OK, rottweilers: if it had been Avon as the focus of "City," would Kerrill still have wound up all girly in a frock at the end, or would she have carried on being tough and macho? Fiona The Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane Available for public perusal at http://nyder.r67.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: Blakes7 digest, Vol 1 #24 - 9 msgs
by Helen Krummenacker 05 Feb '01

05 Feb '01

> > Oh, what a great idea. I love time loop stories with a great passion. We > > must have one. Nay, a whole zine of them. > > > > Alison > > I rather like the idea, but I fear we will end up with nineteen rewrites of > _Blake_ To avoid this, an agreement could be made to have each for a different episode. Una could probably do a lovely job with a Groudhog Day Animals (while I cringe at the notion of seeing the Servalan-Dayna scenes repeated even once). The potential writers would just have to tell the potential editor which episode(s) they are interested in writing before getting into detail, so the editor can tell them if it's already taken. Maybe there's a Dawn of the Gods where the Tharn gets to keep trying again until he remembers to put the self-destruct in a *secret* location. Really, Blake is an obvious choice, but I'm having much more fun thinking of how I would "Groundhog-ize" other stories, mostly the ones that had major flaws.

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Deliverance
by Andrew Williams 05 Feb '01

05 Feb '01

Neil wrote: > > (Still thinking this is the Best Thread on the Lyst ... Ever!) You obviously weren't on-line for the Best Socks on the Liberator thread....

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Redemption stewarding
by Julia Jones 05 Feb '01

05 Feb '01

I've just been talking to Judith, who can't type at all so I'm doing this for her... Redemption has enough stewards to cover the events, but could use a few more. In particular, the zine library could open for longer hours if there are more stewards available. If you would like to volunteer for stewarding in general, or for the zine library only, please email Judith who will forward the message to the head stewards Ivan and Sasha. Judith(a)blakes-7.com -- Julia Jones

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Characters vs interesting stuff...
by Nathan Hook 05 Feb '01

05 Feb '01

One of the great things about Blakes 7 and indeed what makes it special, are the characters. I think the credit lies in the writing of these personality traits, which often out weigh the real action on the screen, simply because much of the drama occurs within the group. It's almost voyueristc. Through friction and humour we see character development and revelation, which keeps us watching. When you've got a group of people living together in confined quaters there's bound to be friction, Blakes 7 captures that exceedingly well. The collective are a cohesive dichotomy; or as Avon described it in gold...'we are together for mutual convenience....I would imagine if I tried to double cross them, they would try to kill me.' In the circumstances that they're living in, this all sounds plausible. Thats a key word, plausible...and the actors who portrayed these characters are largely responsible for this. so many of the scenes are extremely natural. The best example of this is Blake and Avon, vying for dominant position. We know from the very outset that these two men are philosophically apposed and basically don't like each other. Still circumstance has thrust them together and they both recognise strengths in the other that neither really has. They have a mutual dislike of the Federation, but view things differently. Avon has a more personal pragmatism if you like. He sees no need to bring down the Federation for the hell of it. He particularly doesn't want to die doing so. Blake is looking out for human interest, but is frequently blinded by idealism and what he sees as right. Basically these motivations and personalities compete. avon in deliverance, 'are you afraid that I can cope with it [the radiation] better than you can? B: 'No {laughing}' A: 'Well, perhaps you ought to be.' redemption B:'...and you just let the others go on worrying?' A: 'Well all they had to do was ask. Perhaps in future they won't rely on you to provide all the answers.' Or my favourite form redemption. A: 'Have you found what you want?' B: 'No.' A: 'Thats' because you're looking for the wrong things.' B: 'What exactly is that supposed to mean?' A: 'It's a common enough failing....' calculated insults and an opportunity to put each other down, all over a philosophical discussion on the nature of prediction. It's a well worked scene. There are hundreds to choose from, and not just avon winning too. This struggle for position is very much human nature when you have equal wills and different skills in an environment where there isn't an established leader.Have a look at the work place when there's no leadership. shambolical. Clearly Blake was better leader material than Avon. He was more of a people person, but also the group seemed to "trust" him. Everyone was a little unsure of Avon, he was motivated by "self-interest" remember, not by idealism. much harder to tie down. I'm counting "better" on personality and influence, not success rates here. Avon did lose two space craft after all. :-)(and remember Avon recalling Blakes leadership skills in Blake. '...and they will follow him...and very good with rabble...' yada yada needing a figure head, trying to undermine Blakes talent for leadership.) If we compare the Captain Kirk scenario, no-one really questions his leadership, because he's "captain". there's no need, it's already established. In B7 we have personalities struggling for position and ethical motivation. eg. Jenna querying Blakes plague warning probe in Killer and stating she would need 'proof of that.' with regards to the federation personnel being human, according to blake. This is what makes good viewing. Clint Eastwood said to Larry King one time what makes a good movie. A good story well told and he said the importance of good characters. The chain is only as strong as the weakest link. I personally hate piri, even as cancer she hammed her part. Like Colin Baker as Bayban. Generally the Brit's have marvellous character actors. recently in NZ we've had Lord of the Rings being filmed, here in wellington. One of my friends did some extra work...well a few friends actually, but he said he was amazed at the number of Brit's on the set. they are good character actors and funny buggers to have on set. One conversation overheard by some southern england lads who'd finished university and were travelling. 'E're? Why dya' wanna have a pike that long for?' 'I dunno', pick apples?' We all have like's or hates to the characters we see. we recognise these traits in ourselves or other people, even though the circumstances they're in aren't real. natural human responses? or merely plausible? Thats the key to the success of this show over so many others of the genre. So heres to good characters first, but backed with a good scribt and decent dialogue. Nayte. "That all-softening, overpowering knell,/ The tocsin of the soul - the dinner bell." Byron. ------------------------------------------------------------ Free, BeOS-friendly email accounts: http://BeMail.org/ love and pixels .:. http://dieselsweeties.com/

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Characters vs interesting stuff...
by Nathan Hook 05 Feb '01

05 Feb '01

One of the great things about Blakes 7 and indeed what makes it special, are the characters. I think the credit lies in the writing of these personality traits, which often out weigh the real action on the screen, simply because much of the drama occurs within the group. It's almost voyueristc. Through friction and humour we see character development and revelation, which keeps us watching. When you've got a group of people living together in confined quaters there's bound to be friction, Blakes 7 captures that exceedingly well. >The collective are a cohesive dichotomy; or as Avon described it in gold...'we are together for mutual convenience....I would imagine if I tried to double cross them, they would try to kill me.' >In the circumstances that they're living in, this all sounds plausible. Thats a key word, plausible...and the actors who portrayed these characters are largely responsible for this. so many of the scenes are extremely natural. > >The best example of this is Blake and Avon, vying for dominant position. We know from the very outset that these two men are philosophically apposed and basically don't like each other. Still circumstance has thrust them together and they both recognise strengths in the other that neither really has. They have a mutual dislike of the Federation, but view things differently. Avon has a more personal pragmatism if you like. He sees no need to bring down the Federation for the hell of it. He particularly doesn't want to die doing so. >Blake is looking out for human interest, but is frequently blinded by idealism and what he sees as right. > >Basically these motivations and personalities compete. >avon in deliverance, 'are you afraid that I can cope with it [the radiation] better than you can? >B: 'No {laughing}' >A: 'Well, perhaps you ought to be.' > >redemption B:'...and you just let the others go on worrying?' >A: 'Well all they had to do was ask. Perhaps in future they won't rely on you to provide all the answers.' > >Or my favourite form redemption. A: 'Have you found what you want?' >B: 'No.' >A: 'Thats' because you're looking for the wrong things.' >B: 'What exactly is that supposed to mean?' >A: 'It's a common enough failing....' > >calculated insults and an opportunity to put each other down, all over a philosophical discussion on the nature of prediction. It's a well worked scene. There are hundreds to choose from, and not just avon winning too. > >This struggle for position is very much human nature when you have equal wills and different skills in an environment where there isn't an established leader.Have a look at the work place when there's no leadership. shambolical. Clearly Blake was better leader material than Avon. He was more of a people person, but also the group seemed to "trust" him. Everyone was a little unsure of Avon, he was motivated by "self-interest" remember, not by idealism. much harder to tie down. I'm counting "better" on personality and influence, not success rates here. Avon did lose two space craft after all. :-)(and remember Avon recalling Blakes leadership skills in Blake. '...and they will follow him...and very good with rabble...' yada yada needing a figure head, trying to undermine Blakes talent for leadership.) > > >If we compare the Captain Kirk scenario, no-one really questions his leadership, because he's "captain". there's no need, it's already established. >In B7 we have personalities struggling for position and ethical motivation. eg. Jenna querying Blakes plague warning probe in Killer and stating she would need 'proof of that.' with regards to the federation personnel being human, according to blake. > >This is what makes good viewing. Clint Eastwood said to Larry King one time what makes a good movie. A good story well told and he said the importance of good characters. The chain is only as strong as the weakest link. I personally hate piri, even as cancer she hammed her part. Like Colin Baker as Bayban. Generally the Brit's have marvellous character actors. recently in NZ we've had Lord of the Rings being filmed, here in wellington. One of my friends did some extra work...well a few friends actually, but he said he was amazed at the number of Brit's on the set. they are good character actors and funny buggers to have on set. >One conversation overheard by some southern england lads who'd finished university and were travelling. >'E're? Why dya' wanna have a pike that long for?' >'I dunno', pick apples?' > >We all have like's or hates to the characters we see. we recognise these traits in ourselves or other people, even though the circumstances they're in aren't real. >natural human responses? or merely plausible? Thats the key to the success of this show over so many others of the genre. > >So heres to good characters first, but backed with a good scribt and decent dialogue. >Nayte. > "That all-softening, overpowering knell,/ The tocsin of the soul - the dinner bell." Byron. ------------------------------------------------------------ Free, BeOS-friendly email accounts: http://BeMail.org/ love and pixels .:. http://dieselsweeties.com/

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Re: the "25% rule"
by Helen Krummenacker 04 Feb '01

04 Feb '01

> > but it's substantially more than 25% of the time that > > a woman needs rescuing by a man, even in B7. > What always sticks out in my mind is how d*mn many times Blake needed Avon to bail him out. Although there were also plenty of times Avon needed bailing. Dayna was the main rescuerer of arses, male and female, in Ultraworld, I would say. (Vila gets credit for assisting ORAC in scrambling the Ultraworld mind, but Dayna's the one who exploded herself and Tarrant out of captivity so they could fetch Avon and Cally). Come to think of it, Dayna was the rescuer in Aftermath and the muscle who dealt with the troopers in Powerplay. Cally, in most of the telepathic-danger episodes, was both in need of rescue and the power that could deal with the enemy (Shadow, Dawn of the Gods, Sarcophagus). In Volcano, she needed help, but actively assisted the others in finding her. I haven't crunched numbers, but I don't think that the women were put in the capturee situation all that often.

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Blakes7 February 2001