Blakes7 February 2001

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80 participants
929 discussions

Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by Sally Manton 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

Wendy wrote: <After a bit of Freudian imagery of Avon firing off a big rocket and fertalising her race, he then leaves her to die of radiation poisoning on Cephlon, having taken away her reason for living!> Now let us be reasonable ... he took away said reason at her RATHER LOUD request (as far as she was concerned, doing so was *his* reason for living IMO). Yes, the plot has decidedly sexist overtones, but I do think what's been done *with* it tends to skew them. Meegat may be totally subservient, but she is also the most in control of her part in the situation - she is totally unembarrassed, almost assured, as distinct from My Darling whose macho sexist role is rather undercut by his own kerflummoxed reactions (a lovely mixture of flattered, embarrassed, and - every time she throws herself at his feet - mildly appalled :-)). And Vila's teasing is aimed straight at *him* (even if somewhat unkind to Meegat, who barely notices Vila's existence anyway). I do love Avon's "let's not start that again" and his answer to Vila's "you're enjoying this, aren't you?" "*Probably*." (he really *isn't* sure ...) The biggest problem *is* the fact that they appear to leave her there alone (a case of Bad Writer Syndrome, of course - I get the feeling the writer meant Meegat to have gone with the brood-rocket, but screwed it up by showing said rocket leaving). But none of the rest - not even Jenna or Cally, nor the anything-but-piggish Gan, nor Fearless Leader (of the infamous Bleeding Heart, remember?) - appear to have had any problems with Meegat being left. The obvious if inadequate inference is that she *chose* not to leave her home. Alternately <g> she *was* on the Liberator being ferried to safety, but Avon's put her in one of the spare cabins during the flight and is keeping her and her penchant for throwing herself at his feet away from Blake's eyes (somehow, I don't think Avon could *stand* to have Blake see it ...). And from Ellynne: <Although, it would have been fun to have Blake being held at gunpoint and Ensor having to negotiate with someone with that attitude.> Ohh, yes ... watching anyone at all try to intimidate Blake would be enormous fun ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Time loop?
by Harriet Monkhouse 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

Ellynne wrote: >Finally, he finds out it will keep repeating >until some side issue no one even noticed >is resolved. Since I rather doubt Cupid granted >a Romeo-type's wish to save his Juliet-type from > her 24 hr poison in B7, I'm not sure what it is Aha! "Blake" was really the love story of Deva and Klyn! Harriet

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Re: Groundhog day
by Alison Page 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

>>Pred'x (...strangely interested in reading and/or writing this 'zine...) <gleeful expression> Avon already behaves like someone who has seen it all 1,000 times already. Well, don't we all? Alison ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com **********************************************************************

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Re: [B7L] Geometry of Shadows/ Redemption
by Stephen Date 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

--- Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064(a)compuserve.com> wrote: > > Now can you explain why the B5 episode about the > Drazi War is called > Geometry of Shadows when there don't appear to be > any Shadows in it? My > only theory is that the Green/Purple system was set > up by the Shadows as > part of their philosophy of strength through > conflict. > > Harriet As I recall, JMS said somewhere that the phrase was supposed to evoke the nature of Technomages - Geometry being the scientific bit of their nature and Shadows being the mystical bit. Bit confusing though when your major bad guys are called Shadows and they don't actually appear. Incidentally, I have always found the title of the episode Redemption a bit odd. No-one gets redeemed in the spiritual/ religious sense. The reference to the episode title "They're taking back what's theirs - redemption" evokes an image of Pawn shops. Is that why Spaceworld has the three balls ? Or why the Liberator has a room full of tacky costume jewellry ? Anyone ? Stephen. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

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Re:Servalan is insane?
by Helen Krummenacker 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

Okay, the Deliverance thread has expanded to misogynism in the series as a whole and the accusation has been thrown that Servalan is insane. Insane? Power-hungry, without a doubt; possibly 'pro-noid' (thinks people like her more than they do), but are these things considered insanity by the majority of people? She's very much in touch with reality in most ways, although she does seem to observe Avon through very rose-coloured glasses. Her thought patterns are always coherent to an observer. The only reason I can see to define her as insane is her complete lack of scruples. Is this insanity, or adaptation to a society where the ruthless thrive? At least in the Avon-insanity thread, people can point to actual changes in his overall behavior that indicate the stress of his role is getting to him. I'm not sure we see a Servalan in "Gold" who is any different from the Servalan in "Seek-Locate-Destroy". What do people think? I'm loooking for input on all sides.

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Re: Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by una＠q-research.connectfree.co.uk 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

Neil wrote: >From: Penberriss Wendy S. <penberriss(a)yahoo.com> > >> Recently I have watched the episode Deliverance and >> was surprised to see how sexist it was! Worse than >> Power, even! What do other people think? > >I think the difference between the two is that Deliverance, whilst betraying >the sexist mindset of its author, is not actively promoting a misogynistic >agenda, whereas Power is. Ah - but is that more insidious? Una

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Re: [B7L] Servalan is insane?
by Sally Manton 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

Una wrote: <I personally always think that Servalan is completely sane, and that her murderous behaviour has been trained into her by the brutal society in which she lives; bit like Travis' argument in 'Trial'. If Servalan had been living in a comfy western liberal democracy she would be a substantially different person.> OTOH, she could quite easily have been one of Hitler's generals ... <g> No, I agree, she's sane as I understand it (which isn't very far, because I *don't* know much about the subject). Personally, I don't find Servalan at all interesting for most of the series (and particularly dreary post Star One)), but - going back to Deliverance - there is that breif but brilliant little scene with Servie and Travis ... TRAVIS: It was Maryatt. SERVALAN: Does it matter? She's absolutely genuine, IMO - she really, truly *cannot* see that anyone other than herself matters except as far as they affect or can be used by herself. Both Avon and Vila are startlingly selfish - Travis is completely obsessed - but none of them give that impression of being unaware of anything *but* themselves and what they want. And Servalan does. Sane, yes, not quite human: but there's something warped, something actually missing in that mind of hers, and it's not *all* caused by being brought up in the Federation (that didn't help, of course). She's hollow. That scene, short as it is, is my 2nd-favourite Servalan bit in the series (my favourite being in Gambit, of course :-)). _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Hello everyone - a few thoughts on deliverance
by Cheryl _ 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

Hello to everyone, I am new to this list and have been reading with some interest the discussion of metaphors etc on the episode Deliverance. A few thoughts: I have to say that, I myself thoroughly enjoyed this episode and saw only what was represented - as it was represented, it never occurred to me that the rocket could be anything other than a receptacle which has been designed in such a way as to ensure it's ability to plough through the atmosphere and achieve orbit(or whatever) - I am not a rocket scientist or any scientist for that matter but it seems fairly obvious that a streamline vehicle is more conducive to leaving a planets atmosphere and make it through to outer space (even star trek acknowledges this with space docking for their somewhat cumbersome craft) just as a torpedo is designed for maximum range and expedient thrust through water - so is a rocket for breaking free of a planets atmosphere. As for the whole male Vs female argument - Avon, stated quite correctly in the episode "Power" (which seems to have been overlooked by it's detractors)- "...But, when it comes to a war between the sexes - you finally run out of people" Why fight? Meegat didn't know how to operate the controls in the control room (for that matter, neither would I) I admit I'd potter around a bit but then I'm not a credulous member of a race of people who rely on prophecy - it was clearly not Meegats function or place to touch anything in that room - her job was to hopefully welcome the arrival of the nameless Lord of prophecy - and as Lord, signifies male - whether Jenna should have been picked or not is a moot point. I have to say that I found Meegats obvious rapture in the presence of her 'Lord' to be representive of what I have read in history books on cultures that worship Gods and idols - she was in awe of the man - it's that simple - this does not make her a fool. It could be that many years down the track - future generations will look back on our cultures and mock our beliefs and customs, because they have evolved through understanding to a different level. With regard to Meegat and her people being shipped off the planet and elsewhere - apart from the fact that there was never at anytime a mention of this desire or need by Meegat or the prophecy, I would have to say (as other's have done) that considering the 'savages' and Meegat's people were alive and well and living on this planet - then adaptation would have occurred through the generations to allow for survival under these conditions - take them to another planet and many would die from the abrupt change in environmental conditions. At least that's my take on it :-) The final piece is just me getting soppy over Avon - I like all the Blake 7 characters (although, at times - Tarrant has been known to irk me) But Avon, is to me - very special :-) I thought Avon was incredibly wonderful with Meegat - here was a person who saw something special in him and had complete faith in his ability to help - not just her, but anyone. Very sobering for a man who no longer trusts, to have it displayed so openly with respect to him - I think he was genuinely touched by her faith. Also, I have to mention - When he was warning Meegat about who to open the door for - "as the savages know about it now" He, at one point leaned towards her as if to kiss her - but he didn't - he saw the trust in her eyes and did not wish to betray that - I find that commendable as it was obvious that he wish to do so. Cheryl. _____________________________________________________________________________ http://entertainment.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Entertainment - Feeling a little bored? Need some entertainment?

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Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by Sally Manton 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

Mistral wrote: <Or if you said that _you don't believe from context_ that Meegat and her people were asked, there might be scope to discuss why you don't believe the context supports the idea that they were told, and why others believe that it does. That's certainly more productive than saying >someone who believes they must have been told is making up things in order >to comfort herself about the nasty, cruel, sexist plot.> Thanks, Mistral ... :-) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by Tavia Chalcraft 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

On nth thoughts on this rocket metaphory thingy, I'm coming to the view that to consider a rocket to be a phallic symbol is simply sexist of itself... Tavia

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Blakes7 February 2001