Blakes7 March 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

96 participants
1067 discussions

leaving the lyst
by emma 29 Mar '01

29 Mar '01

I've been wondering whether or not to post this for a couple of days now. It's to say I'm leaving lyst. Ok, I'm not the most prolific poster, and I'm sure you'll survive without me. But it seems to be a time for expressing feelings, so.... I'mn leaving because I get between 8 and 12 venomous personal vendetta emails a day in my inbox, about some kind of feud I have no interest in, and which it seems will never be resolved. Those involved were asked to take it to private mail a while back, once by someone else, once by me. They refused. Their choice. I don't have to listen. But you should be aware I also know of 4 others who have left because of it in the last few weeks. That's just the ones who are my friends, and I'm new here so I don't know *that* many folk. How many are going that I do not know? Please, if you care about the fandom and this lyst, stop now. Agree to differ, or don't agree at all, but stop. 2 months is too long. To everyone else: I will miss the intelligent debate which I eavesdropped on, and the humour. And, of course, the penguins. Take care of yourselves. Emma.

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Mini-review of Forbidden Star 3 (a slash/adult zine)
by Tavia 29 Mar '01

29 Mar '01

WARNING TO LYST READERS, SLASH/ADULT DISCUSSED ************************************************************************* At 128 pages with very little wasted space, there's likely to be something in Forbidden Star 3 for every slash/adult reader, whether you're into light and fluffy (for example, Helen Patrick's hilarious 'One Year Warranty', which considers the lifespan of the wardrobe room's offerings) or -- like me -- dark and plotty. I've highlighted five of my personal favourites below, but there's a lot more to enjoy in a very varied zine. 'Polyiterophilia' (Julia Stamford) explores the darker side of Avon's nature. Some readers might disagree with the central premise of the story -- that Avon gets his kicks from anonymous sex -- but the author explores the consequences of the idea, and in particular, its effect on the relationship between Blake and Avon, with considerable sensitivity. (And, well, let's just say that this is one of the stories I had to read twice when I was proofing the zine for Judith [grin].) In 'A Matter of Trust', Morrigan takes a completely different approach to an essentially similar premise. Avon is on trial for murdering the son of a High Councillor on a non-Federated planet after a sexual encounter that went wrong; Blake is trying to conduct negotiations with the government. Again, the complexities of the relationship between the two men are central to the story, and I particularly loved Morrigan's subtle and believable Blake characterisation. Penny Dreadful continues her series of Travis moments unpacked in 'Uniform', which takes Thania's point of view just before the episode 'Trial'. More subtle characterisation, coupled with an insider's view into the machinations of the Federation military justice system. Readers of Freedom City, at least, will be in no doubt as to this reviewer's admiration for Nova's B/A writing. In my opinion, 'Fire and Rain' is her best yet. Inventive, visually stunning, poignant and with the bonus of a great Avalon cameo, my only complaint was that 21 pages weren't nearly enough! Best of all for me was the way that Nova firmly anchored the piece in the response of two rank-and-file Federation troopers to a love story with all the trappings of fairytale. And then there's 'The Seven Deadly Virtuals', another contribution from Penny Dreadful. Penny posted a draft of the story for the Labor Day theme on Freedom City; I solicited it for ttba and considered assassination of a certain UK zine editor when I found out that I'd been pipped to the post. (Cordial relations were later restored when Penny sent me a story that I liked just as much!) This must count as one of the most original B7 stories ever: funny, quirky and unforgettable. Tavia

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Re: [B7L] Re: canon
by Marian de Haan 29 Mar '01

29 Mar '01

Mistral wrote: >Um. Was Chris Boucher involved in the radio plays? Not, right? > >I refuse to call them canon unless CB passed his hand over them. > >(Mind you, I'd be reluctant to call them canon in any case, but I think that would be a really good reason to not.)< Seconded. Also, IMO, they contradict the 52 episodes too much to fit into the canon. As to DotG, I'm never bothered by the dubious history of the Auronar in that episode because it's presented as legend, not as truth. Something like our legend of king Arthur, a nice tale but not to be taken seriously. Marian

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RE: [B7L] zine editing
by Shane Little 29 Mar '01

29 Mar '01

Annie wrote: >In a message dated Thu, 29 Mar 2001 12:44:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, Louise Rutter <Louise.Rutter(a)btinternet.com> writes: > ><< All basically true. However, since the subject under discussion was nothing >to do with writing and everything to do with the publishing of explicit >artwork, highly irrelevant.>>> > >Actually, the overall subject under discussion, as the subject line indicates, was zines and zine editing, not *just* publishing of artwork, explicit or otherwise. Although a conversation about explicit artwork has now begun, that doesn't change the overall topic, I would assume. But it was explicit artwork under discussion in the post to which Leah responded. Please try to keep up. >In fact, the conversation began primarily on the topic of mixed zines versus adult and/or >gen zines and whether or not mixed zines are as popular. But the conversation has moved on from there. IIRC the discussion about vegetarianism started as one about homosexuality, but that doesn't mean people on it are still talking about homosexuality. >Furthermore, Leah's point was that every issue of my zines, like issues of many other >editor's zines, consists of contributions from many and varied contributors. That does >include the artists, as well. I notice you avoid the issue, though, on whether or not the art in question would be considered offensive by the persons depicted. Is it? Furthermore, you are the one responsible for the artwork that appears in the zine, as the editor and publisher. You cannot shirk responsibility on that by blaming the contributors. If you did not feel the art should be published, you could have rejected it. >Leah is hardly the only artist who has ever been published in my publications, as anyone >who has ever bought one of my fanzines or contributed to one knows. But what sort of pictures do the others do, may I ask? > In fact, I was very lucky to be able to feature many of what I consider the best B7 >artists like Karen River, Leah, Suzi Lovett, Laura Virgil, Adrian Morgan, Phoenix, >Randym, Dani Lane and many others. At least some of which are known producers of explicit adult artwork. I'd be interested to know what the pictures they did for you look like. _All_ of them. >I'm incredibly grateful to the artists and writers >who were responsible for making my >zines beautiful visually and great fun to read over the years. Is everyone as grateful as you, that is the point? Shane Largo: Why do I feel as if I'm on trial here? Avon: Why do I feel as if you should be? Who needs Cupid? Matchmaker.com is the place to meet somebody. FREE Two-week Trial Membership at http://www.matchmaker.com/home?rs=200015

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Re: [B7L] zine editing (back to images again, I fear)
by Shane Little 29 Mar '01

29 Mar '01

Tavia wrote: > >Shane: > > >if you draw a picture of any one of these it is the > > >actor's likeness you are reproducing, cause the > > >character doesn't have a likeness independent of the actor > > >There are certainly some actors/actresses who are similar in many of their > >roles, Emma Thompson for one, who was almost indistinguishable in 'Sense & > >Sensibility' versus 'Carrington' despite playing two very different women. > >However, I've always considered that to be a sign of bad acting... I wouldn't. It's rather a sign of a different style of acting. For example some actors play it the same because that is what the director and the audience expect. Roger Moore may not be a character actor, but he was a very successful James Bond, and appeared in many very successful series that traded on his name and the way that he would play the role. A character actor like Tony Robinson has a greater range of physical appearance in his roles, but would not make such a good James Bond :-). > >I guess all I'm trying to say is that a skilled artist (i.e. not me!!) might > >be able to capture an image that is the character and not the > >actor/actress, despite some physical similarities between the two. If we are talking about impressionist painting, then possibly. But still we have to admit that it requires an actor to play a character, and therefore, unless they are under heavy make-up, that actor is going to physically resemble that character. The actor is also going to bring a part of himself to that character; therefore, that version of that character becomes undeniably his, unique to that actor. > >The process would be assisted by the actor/actress being of the school that > >tends to look/feel radically different between parts, and hindered by the > >opposite. You _can_ change your clothes, change the way you walk, wear a wig and a false nose, change your voice to some degree, that's all true. But none of the actors in Blake's 7 were required to do so much. In the end Avon still looked like Paul Darrow, and sounded like Paul Darrow, and had some of Paul Darrow's mannerisms. And if you went to a convention, you wouldn't mistake Paul Darrow for Jan Chappel :-). Darrow my be older now, and a bit wider round the waist-line, but he still is very recognisable, especially to fans of the series. Perhaps particularly in the case of women, it would also be > >helped by casting based on acting ability rather than merely in conformance > >with the prevailing views on feminine beauty. Yes, but unfortunately, totally the opposite is happening today in the world of showbiz. > >I fear, if only from reading 'Blake's 7: The Inside Story', that at least > >one of the female crew members was cast predominantly on appearance. True, it certainly wasn't for her acting ability. However, to get back to my point, that certain actor, 22 years after her appearance in B7, is still identifiable as the actor who played that certain female crew member. She's even got the same 70's hair for goodness sake :-). Shane "You don't win wars by running away and hiding." -- Servalan Who needs Cupid? Matchmaker.com is the place to meet somebody. FREE Two-week Trial Membership at http://www.matchmaker.com/home?rs=200015

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Alternative Servalan meets the real Servalan
by David "Servalan" Walsh 29 Mar '01

29 Mar '01

I will be attending Ecletic21 and guess what, they have asked me to interview Jacqueline Pearce on stage. How camp is that going to be. :o) So you get 2 Servalan's for the price of one so to speak. I have only ever done one other convention with her before, but I didn't get to interview her, so get your camera's clicking, it gotta be a fab photo opportunity. David -- David "Servalan" Walsh The Alternative Servalan servalan(a)alternativeservalan.com

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RE: [B7L] zine editing
by Ashton7＠aol.com 29 Mar '01

29 Mar '01

In a message dated Thu, 29 Mar 2001 12:44:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, Louise Rutter <Louise.Rutter(a)btinternet.com> writes: << All basically true. However, since the subject under discussion was nothing to do with writing and everything to do with the publishing of explicit artwork, highly irrelevant.>>> Actually, the overall subject under discussion, as the subject line indicates, was zines and zine editing, not *just* publishing of artwork, explicit or otherwise. Although a conversation about explicit artwork has now begun, that doesn't change the overall topic, I would assume. In fact, the conversation began primarily on the topic of mixed zines versus adult and/or gen zines and whether or not mixed zines are as popular. Furthermore, Leah's point was that every issue of my zines, like issues of many other editor's zines, consists of contributions from many and varied contributors. That does include the artists, as well. Leah is hardly the only artist who has ever been published in my publications, as anyone who has ever bought one of my fanzines or contributed to one knows. In fact, I was very lucky to be able to feature many of what I consider the best B7 artists like Karen River, Leah, Suzi Lovett, Laura Virgil, Adrian Morgan, Phoenix, Randym, Dani Lane and many others. I'm incredibly grateful to the artists and writers who were responsible for making my zines beautiful visually and great fun to read over the years. Annie

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Re: [B7L] zine editing (back to images again, I fear)
by Tavia 29 Mar '01

29 Mar '01

Shane: >if you draw a picture of any one of these it is the >actor's likeness you are reproducing, cause the >character doesn't have a likeness independent of the actor There are certainly some actors/actresses who are similar in many of their roles, Emma Thompson for one, who was almost indistinguishable in 'Sense & Sensibility' versus 'Carrington' despite playing two very different women. However, I've always considered that to be a sign of bad acting... (Though in the case of 'Carrington', I recall the director saying that Thompson adding her name to the production was the catalyst for funding appearing, so I can forgive almost any amount of Emma looking like Emma...) I guess all I'm trying to say is that a skilled artist (ie not me!!) might be able to capture an image that is the character and not the actor/actress, despite some physical similarities between the two. The process would be assisted by the actor/actress being of the school that tends to look/feel radically different between parts, and hindered by the opposite. Perhaps particularly in the case of women, it would also be helped by casting based on acting ability rather than merely in conformance with the prevailing views on feminine beauty. (To my eyes, Scott Thomas is extremely attractive, yet in 'Angels & Insects' she successfully played a woman one of whose main features was lack of sexual attraction.) I fear, if only from reading 'Blake's 7: The Inside Story', that at least one of the female crew members was cast predominantly on appearance. Tavia

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RE: [B7L] zine editing
by Louise Rutter 29 Mar '01

29 Mar '01

Leah wrote: >The vast majority of stories >in Ashton Press zines are a collection of work submitted by many, many fans >from all over the world, who have submitted that work to Annie and she edits >and publishes it. Targeting one editor for such collections is simply >attacking the messenger because you don't like what your neighbor is getting >in the mail. All basically true. However, since the subject under discussion was nothing to do with writing and everything to do with the publishing of explicit artwork, highly irrelevant. Louise

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(No Subject)
by Shane Little 29 Mar '01

29 Mar '01

Ross Mallett wrote: >In thinking of slash (especially f/f) in the larger context, I >normally think of contrasting Blakes 7 with my other fandom -- Xena. >As with Blakes 7, the show started with purely subtextual elements, >but once the way in which many fans were interpreting it became >known, it became deliberate policy to insert them into every >episode. >Thus each episode contains deliberately tantalising clues that >always >fall short of an outright declaration (much to the dismay of many >fans). We call this "the subtext" and divide fanfic into "gen" and >"alt" depending on whether the author considers the relationship >between the central characters to be sororal or saphic. The difference, however, is that in B7, no such "deliberate policy" was ever implemented, and we have the word on this of Chris Boucher, David Moloney, Terry Nation and other people closely involved with the show. I applaud the producers of Xena for taking this decision, but I don't see what relevance that has to B7. >As with Blakes 7, anything other than gen is extra-canonical but I >would deny in both cases that it is uncanonical just because some >labourious hetrosexual explanation can conceivably be constructed. But once again, the difference is that in the Xena case the subtext is very much intentional, as I understand it (I've also been told that this was also true of "Batman" the TV series, but I couldn't quote an article on it). While I agree that both shows can both be *interpreted* in slash and gen ways, one had a deliberate subtext and the other didn't. >Whereas the majority of B7fic is gen and the majority of slash is >m/m, Xena fic is almost evenly divided between the two, and the >overwhelming majority of slash is of course f/f. That the show has >such a large lesbian fan base belies any claim that f/f is insulting >to them in any way -- much the reverse. Another difference, actually, since I get the impression that gay men are a minority in B7 fandom and the bulk of fans are straight women. >One slash fan writer has written three episodes of the show itself, >on the invitation of the producers, who were impressed with her >work. Good for her-- but that never happened with B7. >The cast have been broadly supportive of the slash, signing such >items as artworks. Lucy Lawless has been known to put in appearances >at lesbian clubs for her gay fans, and Lucy and Renee appeared at >the >Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras in 1999. Another difference. I applaud their attitude-- but at the same time I do feel that since the B7 actors apparently do not feel OK with artwork (to engage in a bit of understatement), it shouldn't be forced upon them. I should add that I don't in the slightest believe that their discomfort with slash artwork has anything to do with homophobia-- a homophobe wouldn't last long in the British acting world :). But we should respect their wishes. >As with Blakes 7, the anti-slash position has been attainted with a >sorry list of crimes over the years, including destruction of web >sites, verbal and physical abuse and assault and some have been >gaoled. Ahem! Look, I decry homophobia and regard the destruction of websites simply for containing homoerotic material to be a crime on par with bookburning. But I have to say, it's been two pro-slash fans who have been doing the namecalling on Lysator for the most part. >In Xena fandom, it's still possible to have anti-gay beliefs, but >you >won't be allowed to express them openly on most mailing lists and >chat channels. Up until the original Kathryn-abuse post, I was thinking to myself "isn't it great that I'm on a lyst where gay people and anti-gay people can both state their positions without tearing each other's throats out and can agree to disagree." A plea: People, that's what *I'd* like the lyst to be. Does anyone else out there agree with me? It's very sad that some people have left this lyst; some are undoubtedly offended slash fans, some offended Christians. Now, the slash fans can go to Freedom City, but where do the offended Christians go? >You'd also have to be aware that the opinion of many >cast, crew and fans is that your beliefs are (as Robert Trapert >said) >"beyond contempt" I personally do not hold anti-gay beliefs; I *am* gay. But IMO, what is "beyond contempt" is abusing someone for their beliefs and convictions, whether these are about orientation, religion or politics. Shane "I don't take anything on trust."--Avon Who needs Cupid? Matchmaker.com is the place to meet somebody. FREE Two-week Trial Membership at http://www.matchmaker.com/home?rs=200015

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Blakes7 March 2001