Blakes7 May 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

84 participants
897 discussions

Re: [B7L] Freedom City (was Re: When "Animals" camouflage)
by Jenny Kaye 19 May '01

19 May '01

Tiger M wrote > >I had been trying to stay out of this, I bet you have. but I feel the need to make some > >corrections concerning the Freedom City list and its policies. > > > >In a message dated 05/19/2001 6:52:08 AM Central Daylight Time, > >jennycat55(a)hotmail.com writes: > > > > > They say many a truth is said in jest. It's a strange thing ambition, > >it can lead you into many places. You rule the roost at Freedom City, but > >you're not happy with just that. > > > >If anyone could be said to rule the roost at Freedom City, it's me, the > >listowner. And what are you? A slasher. > > I'm definitely not Leah, You don't have to be. > >And believe it or not, I don't have the kind of absolute, > >totalitarian control that you seem to think I do. Freedom City is dominated by slashers. All Leah's interested in is pushing that mindset, but she's pushing at an open door with Freedom City, that's why Leah and Annie are on here. Why are you here Tiger M? It's not to discuss B7 that's for sure. The slashers are here because they want their interpretation to be the only one. Why use IMO's? Why use Fluff tactics? They are conditioning techniques. Some of you out there may be thinking, "Why would they want to do this? What good will it do them?" They want to do it because they are small minded little Nazis. And they crave control. > > > So you come here to Lysator. Everyone on Freedom > > > City is by definition a slasher, > > > >This is incorrect. We are a slash-friendly list So everyone is by definition in favour of slash. , but not exclusive. Not > >everyone on FC is a slash fan, or even into erotica. Many list members > >just like the relaxed atmosphere there, and my only stipulation is that they be > >tolerant of their fellow list members who do like slash and het erotica and > >that they follow the rules. That is insane. You are a slash list. On there slash is the dominant reading. Anyone who is quite frankly stupid enough to go for the "relaxed atmosphere" is very soon going to become a slasher. It's unavoidable. If you are using IMO's and Fluff tactics here, then they are going to be used there also. And worse. I know conditioning devices when I see them. > >Freedom City is open to anyone who is over 18 and legally an adult in the > >area where they live, and is willing to abide by its rules, two of which > >include the prohibition of flaming and trolling. Yes. Because a bucolic atmosphere is something to cultivate in a land of slashers. "Don't think, just accept. There is no such thing as truth. There is no such thing as reality. All interpretations are valid." But the dominant interpretation is slash. Therefore that becomes the accepted one. What it is saying is that, "All interpretations are valid, so it's just as right to say that this is a slash show as anything else. All interpretations are valid, so the scriptwriter's opinions don't matter, All interpretations are valid, so it's just as valid to say that Avon is a nice guy as that he's a psychopath..." But guess what? This isn't the series to play mind games with. There are some very powerful themes in B7 concerning mind control and mental illness. Remember Terry Nation was very interested in the Nazis and themes of mind control keep appearing in his work. This isn't vacuous Classic Trek, this is a British series heavily influenced by writers such as George Orwell, Aldous Huxley, Anthony Burgess and Graham Greene. The show is also influenced to a great extent by George Markstein and David Tomblin. I bet you haven't heard those names before have you? They worked on The Prisoner. A series that used for its basis mind altering and reprogramming techniques which had been devised by the British secret service during WW2. VERY VERY DANGEROUS. One of the people commissioned to work on The Prisoner was Roger Parkes. You may all believe that B7 was some cheap crap that was churned out during the 1970's, but I'll tell you something. You fuck with that series, and it'll fuck with you, PERMANENTLY. Remember, in a close text reading of Space Fall, I demonstrated that Leylan was a camouflaged psychopath. You thought he was a nice guy, didn't you? If you hadn't had any suspicion in 20 years of watching this show, then what are you getting out of it, in a closed environment like this one? And who are you modeling yourselves on? Another psychopath. Avon. The man who people here say is a nice guy. A poor wounded misunderstood guy who just wants to be left alone to explore the galaxy. Bollocks. Ever seen "Hannibal"? Now there's a film which demonstrates the dangers of thinking a psychopath is a nice guy. Another British director, by the way, and a man who understands dangerous subtextual themes. He ensures that the audience, at the end of the film, loses all sympathy for the character through two horriffic scenes, one after the other. Now why do you think he did that? And another thing. In Britain in the 1970s TV was a young medium. Many programmes of the time were very experimental. A few years later it became set in its ways but then it was still wild. Right now we're dealing with another young medium. The Internet. It's becoming set in its ways but we won't know what the outcome of extensive exposure will be for at least another ten years. Already people have complained of obsessive-compulsive behaviour linked to it. > >It's my understanding that the great majority of the people on this list > >are adults, able to think for themselves and make their own decisions. Wrong. > >There may be some minors here, Oh, really. but I don't think even they would be here if they > >didn't have at least a certain amount of intelligence and maturity. You stupid bitch. I've seen some intelligence here but I've seen virtually no maturity. > >From where I > >stand, it looks like what you are trying to do is make other people's > >decisions for them. No. I am trying to make people aware of what's going on here. You obviously don't care. I do. Why do you think I am putting in all this effort ? For my health? > >Please stop making unwarranted personal attacks on other people. They are not unwarranted. They are perfectly justified. > >Tiger M, Freedom City Mindcontroller Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: Orbit
by Steve Rogerson 19 May '01

19 May '01

Anna said: "I think that between 'Orbit' and 'Blake' he asked Dayna to give him some self-defense lessons, just in case." That works for me. It deserves to find its way into a story. Trying to imagine Dayna teaching Vila and Vila worried that she's going to hurt him as she shows off the moves. Dayna would do it too, especially if Vila told her what happened on the shuttle. Dayna's always struck me as being honorable, so I suspect she'd be well upset if she'd known what Avon had done, or tried to do. I reckon she could accept him being underhand with their enemies but not with the crew. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption 03, 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent Celebrating 25 years of Blake's 7 and 10 years of Babylon 5 http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Re: [B7L] Federation political hierarchies & comparisons
by Tavia 19 May '01

19 May '01

Sally wrote: >Thinking about some of my favourite politicians (I believe there's an >election going on in the UK at the minute? I must admit this week's campaigning has seemed rather too appropriate (for those not privileged to enjoy this particular feast, the Deputy Leader of the party currently in government punched a demonstrator in the face a few days back, and the demonstrator ended up being questioned by the police). >There's also a flavour (for me) of decay, especially in the 4th >series, that clashes with the canonical fact that the Federation *is* in >Pylene-driven resurgence and makes me believe that said resurgence is >probably due to collapse soon with or without Our Heroes' intervention. In S1--3 we get frequent glimpses into the heart of Federation Space Command; in S4 there's hardly a mention of central government of any description, we only see the scrapping around the edges. I don't see that we have much evidence either way for what's happening centrally. Tavia

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Re: [B7L] interruption
by Jenny Kaye 19 May '01

19 May '01

"Dana Shilling" writes> > > >Sally asked: > > > > > > Watching Blake and Avon fight is fun. Let's get back to that, shall we? > > > (Another lure - *why* is watching Blake and Avon fight fun?) > >1. Because the subject matter is real and important--they really ARE > >fighting over the fate of the galaxy WRONG. > >2. Because they'd both rather fight with each other than do almost > >anything else the BBC will let them do in that time slot, so they > >devote all their considerable talents to it WRONG. > >3. Because the Blake-Avon Galaxy Series games can be staged > >perfectly well on a BBC budget That's true. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [Frivolous] Re: Re [B7L] Curioser and curioser...
by Tavia 19 May '01

19 May '01

Hi Penny, nice to have you back.... A touch of frivolity appears sorely in need on this Lyst Tavia 'because kittens have claws'

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newbies watching season 4
by padme＠bantha.org 19 May '01

19 May '01

I've been introducing a few folks from a college science fiction group to Blake's 7 this academic year. We're in the final stages now... we watched Traitor and Stardrive this week. It's been very instructive to see the series through new eyes. The group includes an Avon fan, a Vila fan, a Gan fan who is amazed that anyone might deny the intensity of the Blake-Avon relationship, and someone who watches to glory in the bad special effects and good stories. We took some time after these last episodes to talk about it (and the Neon Genesis Evangelion marathon we'd all attended recently, but I digress). Some observations: * They don't like Servalan. One of them thinks she's just dumb and ridiculous; others tolerate her. But none of them *likes* her, and I've always thought she was wonderful fun. I'm thinking they won't be waiting for her to appear at the end of Blake like so many other people I know did their first time through. I'd say these are just people with an insufficient appreciation of camp, but they *adored* Gambit. * Warning people about Ben Steed helps. I said he was my least favorite writer and horribly sexist, before each of his episodes. It helps... if people go into those episodes with low expectations they can find, I think, more enjoyment from them than they would otherwise. However, the other girl in the group found no redeeming value in Power whatsoever. I had said that it was Steed's most sexist episode, but that it had redeeming factors (I was thinking of Nina and Cato, and Vila's work on the door, pretty much--and I find Gunn Sar hilarious). Cassia disagreed... she said she felt just dirty after watching it. Oh dear. * No Tarrant fans. They seem pretty much to regard him as an interloper, and more than one has called him an asshole during episodes--none of the other regulars has gotten such harsh negative language. They liked him in Deathwatch and Rumours, but they don't *like* him. Opinions are much divided on Vila (buffoon? clever schemer? nice guy caught up in larger events?). The Avon fan dismisses *his* confrontation with Pella as never having happened, and the Vila fan (who also likes Avon) rejects Stardrive's "Who?" as wrong, as doing violence to the character of Avon. I think that line fits well with what is yet to come, but I can't tell her that yet. The main criticism at this point in the series (again, early season 4) seems to be that nobody but Vila and Avon is getting any character development. Tarrant and Dayna have regressed to different degrees of followerness without the spark they had when they were each introduced. Soolin we haven't seen enough of yet. I'd say that Vila and Avon are reacting to their new direr circumstances, but that the others aren't particularly. They were all but one *furious* at Servalan's return in Traitor. They felt it was a cheap cheat. What could I say? Yeah, it rather is, but those making the show thought the series was ending as they filmed Terminal, right? I suppose people who liked Servalan more would be more willing to overlook the flimsiness of her continued existence. The guy who comes for the bad effects and good story is much disappointed with the beginning of the "find scientists, kill them off" series of episodes. Other than the bike racing in Stardrive, for example, he felt the effects were too good and the story too weak. ;-) And various characters that people would like to see as new regulars have not been added, and have mostly died. People they've thought might be added to the crew (or might stick around the show, before its format became clear) most recenly include Dorian and Dr. Plaxton, but I thought people might be interested in the list of what-ifs so far. It's not exhaustive of the good possibilities, of course, it's just what this group saw: The Way Back: Tel Varon Space Fall: Nova (of course), Leylan and Artix (!!! Interesting potential there) Cygnus Alpha: Arco Mission to Destiny: Levett Project Avalon: Avalon Orac: Ensor Pressure Point: Veron (especially since Gan had just died and seemed to want replacing) Killer: Dr. Bellfriar or Gambrill (okay, these are just me) City at the Edge of the World: Kerril, of course Rumours: Okay, they didn't expect Grenlee and Forres to join up, but oh did they love them. They also appreciated Quute and the general in Traitor. Moloch: Doran (but only early on) Rescue: Dorian Stardrive: Dr. Plaxton I must say that I'd love to see Artix or Dorian or Plaxton continue to interact with our crew. Claudia

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Re: Ruler of the Universe
by Steve Rogerson 19 May '01

19 May '01

Jacqueline said about Leah: "Anyway, this accomplishment means that I feel that you should be nominated as our next ruler of the universe. Or is it too early to send in nominations for the Redemption '03 election? Steve?" Never too early, Harriet has already announce she's standing as Jarriere and someone, I've forgot who for a second, is standing as Zaphod Beeblebrox. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption 03, 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent Celebrating 25 years of Blake's 7 and 10 years of Babylon 5 http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Re: [B7L] Vila the Vegetable
by Jenny Kaye 19 May '01

19 May '01

Mistral wrote: > >If the characters were vegetables, what do you think they'd be? > > > >Vila would be a cucumber, because they're seedy and frequently pickled. > > > >Avon might be a hot pepper, Travis a Brussels sprout. > > > >Mistral Another tagged slasher upping the drug count. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: Vila
by Steve Rogerson 19 May '01

19 May '01

Dana wrote: << > I've always wondered how Vila wound up on weapons myself That's Blake's predicament in a nutshell--he has so few crewmembers that he had to put *Vila* in charge of weapons. >> I've always wondered about the different Vilas we see, the Vila the coward who doesn't want to get involved in anything and the Vila who can handle ship weapons and fly the ship, and of course that scene in Blake were he professionally disarms and knocks out Arlen. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption 03, 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent Celebrating 25 years of Blake's 7 and 10 years of Babylon 5 http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Re: [B7L] Avon worship
by Jenny Kaye 19 May '01

19 May '01

Tavia wrote: >Tavia, the psycopathic kitten Many a true word is spoken in jest. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Blakes7 May 2001