Blakes7 May 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

84 participants
897 discussions

Re: [B7L] No changes, please ...
by Kai V Karmanheimo 09 May '01

09 May '01

Well, late in the game once again, but here goes anyway. Sally wrote: <<[a] three things about Blake's 7 as a series that make it special for them, and different from other shows?>> I have recently tried to think what it is that still attracts me to Blake's 7, years after I should have put away such childish things, and found several factors. However, few of them are indigenous to this show, but when push comes to show, I would name these (just don't expect simple, straight-forward answers): 1. Dialogue. It's not just the abundance of catchy one-liners, for after all even the few good sitcoms out there are capable of producing similar in their best moments, but, in best cases, Blake's 7 ability to create and sustain a line of intelligent, poignant and often biting dialogue that is extremely streamlined, functional, sometimes even austere, but seems much more complex and intricate than it actually is. In best cases, this is exactly what it is (for some reason, "Rumours of Death" always suggests itself as the first example, but I have suspicion that nearly any Chris Boucher-scripted episode might do) and that is rare. Mind you, there are often times when I'd wish for more variation, especially to make characters more different from each other, because after all just having sarcastic bastards thrown at you eventually gets just as boring as a galaxy full of Shiny Happy People (this is the same kind of critique that I would level at some of the "character interaction" in the series: in best cases, it's absorbing; in worst cases, it's nothing more than forced and formulated bickering that makes you reach for the FFWD button), but in an age when too much television dialogue is written by dyslexics for aphasiacs to perform with the comatosed as the obvious target audience, I'm simply thankful that a series like Blake's 7 ever got made. 2. Basically the whole moral quagmire of it. Again, this goes beyond just the fact that there is no moralising and the line between good and bad is often wafer thin. I like the ideas that are sometimes stated in few episodes ("Star One" and "Blake", particularly), but more often suggested by the overall mood of the series. Ideas like that rising against oppression is vital and right, but still perhaps futile, that good people can and have to do terrible things to fight that kind of oppression but that they cannot just shrug away the ramifications of their actions but are brutalised in the process. And that in the end, "nobody is indispensable". 3. Characterisation. Yes, the characters are a big part of the show's endurance, though not the most vital one. Some of the more memorable characters (for different reasons) have come from this series, though I would hardly call it unique in this respect. Similarly, the incompatible group dynamic, the we're-all-in-this-together-so-shut-yer-gob-and-help-me-with-this theme is not original at all (though I like it), but B7's version is, at its best (largely the first two seasons, less so on the third and almost not at all in the fourth), cheerfully irreverant and devoid of too much uncomplicated competence in the face of adversity a'la Howard Hawks. But perhaps the most appealing and special feature about the characterisations of Blake's 7 is the attention, again in the best cases, given to non-regulars and small guest parts. Taking once again "Rumours of Death" as my example, the presence of Grenlee and Forres plays important part in elevating this episode for me, and though I'm moved by the tragedy of the ending (this being one of the few times that I can honestly say I feel sorry for Avon), it's their death that disturbs me more in successive screenings than that of Anna. Hence the characterisation has three facets that make up its appeal: (some) interesting individual characters, the turbulent groups their contrasts create and the little people who frame their stories (by usually getting trampled underfoot). <<[b] if you can think of them, one thing in each of just three episodes that somehow lifted that episode for you?>> 1. "Dawn of the Gods": [ZAP goes the salvage team] ORAC: Fascinating. ZEN: Confirmed. (Nicely understated, yet amusing little scene, and there is precious little else to recommend in this episode) 2. "Deathwatch": The staging and direction of the duel between Deeta and Vinni. If it wasn't for Gerald Blake's quasi-Sergio Leone-isms here, this episode wouldn't be half as good as it is. They cover up a multitude of sins. 3. "Trial": TRAVIS: Some of us weren't hypocrites, were we, Par? (This episode has lots of things to pick up, but somehow this small moment is the most memorable and evocative to me. Perhaps because it's because it so nicely flashes that somewhat twisted sense of Kameradschaft between Federation thuggish troopers. Perhaps it's because it is ambivalent and can be read in various ways in connection to several of the themes thrown around in the episode. Perhaps it's because its one of the best moments for Croucher's Travis.) Runners up: the look on Vila's face as he tries to steel himself to go to the teleport section in "Bounty" and Cally kicking Blake's arse in "Time Squad". Kai

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Re: evolution for predators? (was Terminal)
by Helen Krummenacker 09 May '01

09 May '01

> Maybe. But ask any conservationist which large > predators are not in danger of extinction by homo > sapiens. I'm pretty sure it would be a fairly short > list. > Off the top of my head, sharks? And they aren't land-based, so hardly compare to the Links.

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Re: moloch/limiters
by Helen Krummenacker 08 May '01

08 May '01

> >Ack! I shall defend my Oak Leaves (actually, was never awarded any > >despite thinking Gan's a slendid chap and arguing that Avon teaching > him > >about computers shows that snarky comments aside, the Snarly One > thought > >Gan showed potential as a student) > > > There was a scene in an early episode where Avon shows him a thing or > two > about computers, but there are also quite a number of times where Avon > clearly demonstrates his contempt for Gan's intelligence. For example: > When > they are looking for Orac in Shadow,Gan tells the crew that he even > called > out Orac's name. Avon replies, "That requires a degree of stupidity > that no > amount of training could match." > > What part of "Snarky comments aside" was unclear? I *am* aware of the oft quoted insults-- but then, Avon has insulted the intelligence of all of them at various times. Perhaps you beliueve that Avon's words always reveal true, deeply held convictions-- I prefer to scrutinize his actions. As for the dangerousness of Gan vs. Doran, I definitely did not make it clear that I meant that I thought the Federation was jumping to erroneous conclusions when they thought Gan was more dangerous than Doran to them. Also, almost everything mentioned (encouraging Vila to assualt Servalan, shooting guards) happens after the initial arrest. They apparently didn't realize what a beast he was. Or 2 other possibilities: during the big war, they lost a lot of surgeons and don't have anyone to spare to do the implants; alternately, he would have gotten the implant if he hadn't been diverted from surgery by the rogue group who were trying to build their own army. Obviously a man who could not kill would not suit them. In response to this: > >mad on at half the species, but he's also basically a coward and > won't > >be attacking women with rank and status. > > I haven't got this episode on video and I haven't see it in years, so > please > excuse me if I'm getting this wrong, but I don't remember Doran being > intimidated by women with rank and status, he even tries to encourage > Vila > to rape Servalan. > I need to clarify again... with current rank and status, which, we have seen in the past, means the woman usually has an armed escort. I meant he has physical cowardice and wouldn't risk being killed attacking, when there are so many unprotected women amid the lower ranks.

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Re: [B7L] Terminal (was: moloch/limiters)
by Jenny Kaye 08 May '01

08 May '01

Stephen wrote: > > >More simply why would natural selection > > consistently > > >favour link like traits against intelligence and > > not > > >ripping the head off anything you meet ? > > > > Perhaps they can outbreed and outfight the more > > intelligent specimens :-)? > >Maybe. But ask any conservationist which large >predators are not in danger of extinction by homo >sapiens. I'm pretty sure it would be a fairly short >list. But if they are descended from homo sapiens, all it would take would be for them to be more aggressive (and prolific) than the norm? > > Well, it was 1980 and SimCity was a few years off > > :-). But I'd imagine a > > live trial has the advantage that things could > > happen which the > > experimenters didn't predict-- a computer is only as > > good as its operator > > after all. > >But the initial parameters of the experiment would >have to be set by the experimenters. How would you >allow for things like, for example, the mass >extinctions at the end of the Permian era or the giant >meteorite that wiped out the dinosaurs ? It should >also be remembered that human beings on different >planets would be subject to different selective >pressures. So human beings on Terminal might evolve >into Links, on Sardos they might evolve into Moloch, >elsewhere they might evolve into somewhere else. It's interesting that the show does seem to recognise this (as in Moloch), but it's also interesting that in both cases the outcome is undoubtedly nasty. Could it be that the story is saying that we're going to get worse whatever our environment (and that Servalan's statement is a general analogue rather than referring to the links alone)? >Incidentally civilisation ending on a diminuendo as a >doomed humanity descends into barbarism can be found >in Stapledon's First and Last men. I suppose that it's >possible that Nation adapted the idea. Quite possible-- IIRC it was an influential book. >I have to say I really >like the ending of Terminal as drama - as philosophy >and biology it's awful - Well that's social darwinism for you :-). >(apart from Servie not noticing the state the >Liberator was in) She does notice it-- she looks decidedly distressed at the state the place is in, but there isn't much she can do about it at that point, she's hardly going to go back down to Terminal. >If you haven't read the Plague you might like that >too. I'll take it out of the library sometime. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] No changes, please ...
by Tavia 08 May '01

08 May '01

Sally asked, some while back now: > [a] three things about Blake's 7 as a series that make it special for > them, and different from other shows? This was hard to answer, partly 'cos I watch so little other television, but... (1) Ambiguity: it's sometimes hard to tell the heroes and villains apart (2) Bleakness, loss, futility, tragedy (3) A geek with dress sense >[b] if you can think of them, one thing in each of just three >episodes that somehow lifted that episode for you? (1) Horizon: Avon in the rocky gully in silver top and thigh boots ('cos I'm shallow) (2) Shadow: Cally's exchange with the Space City security (not so much lifting the episode, as the character) (3) Traitor: The muddy vistas at the start (partly 'cos they're beautiful, but also 'cos they suggest what a mess war makes of the landscape) Tavia

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Re: [B7L] Dayna's family
by Marian de Haan 08 May '01

08 May '01

Ellynne wrote: >This would also give Dayna somewhat better reasons for her homicidal treatment of the neighbors and for her father's tolerance of it. If she was avenging foster-mother, fighting people who had murdered her foster-sister's family the same way her biological mother and family had been murdered, her actions make much more sense. So does what happened to Laran. If she was some kind of lost heir, she was a threat as long as she lived. Also, it kind of gives a new meaning to her rejoining her people.< Makes sense. It always seemed strange to me that they would kill her rather than force her into marriage. Marian

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Dayna's family
by Ellynne G. 08 May '01

08 May '01

Checking over the archive, I came across the subject of Laran's adoption into Dayna's family and whether she was a baby or child or whatever. I noticed an interesting fact. Dayna is skilled enough with her chosen weapons to deal successfully with multiples of the locals - armed, mounted locals. Furthermore, the weapons she uses require a high degree of training and skill - training I very much doubt her father had and that his partial blindness probably would have kept him from passing on even if he did. So, this suggests Dayna had contact with an adult who _was_ trained and skilled in those weapons - and she was much more likely to find one of those in the neighborhood than among whatever friends did or didn't come to visit. Odds are, this adult was either one of Laran's parents or a guardian of some sort. Anyone with anything like Dayna's weapons skill would be difficult to hold against his or her will (not to mention unlikely to foster good feeling between Dayna and Laran, or to teach Dayna anything useful). The most likely scenario is someone desperate enough to go to the weird aliens from Earth for help, someone with no place else to go. My guess would be either the survivor of a war between tribes or the survivor of some internal power struggle. Either way, Laran was a recognized heir of the losing group. Attempts were made to attack the Melanbys, with known results. Eventually, these were stopped, possibly with the help of a local bard or soothsayer type who managed to interpret a traditional prophecy or convincingly come up with a new one that presented what were felt to be a very unlikely set of circumstances as the sign that war should be resumed in earnest. This would also give Dayna somewhat better reasons for her homicidal treatment of the neighbors and for her father's tolerance of it. If she was avenging foster-mother, fighting people who had murdered her foster-sister's family the same way her biological mother and family had been murdered, her actions make much more sense. So does what happened to Laran. If she was some kind of lost heir, she was a threat as long as she lived. Also, it kind of gives a new meaning to her rejoining her people. It also makes me wonder whether Dayna wouldn't have counted as another heir, being Laran's adopted sister (I hate to leave a family revenge story hanging [er . . . unpleasant double meaning not intended]). Actually, suppose Dayna's mother was a _local_ (we probably have to presuppose Terran humans aged a little faster, since she looked a bit older than Laran). Given Terran prejudices, Melanby would be quick to tell Avon she was born on _Earth_ (a story Dayna might believe - although her question whether she _looked_ like the natives wasn't actually a denial). Whew, Dayna now has an excellent reason to survive GP, too many unresolved plot issues. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: [B7L] The prodigal hath returned
by Sally Manton 08 May '01

08 May '01

Ellynne wrote: <Then, I got to thinking about it. Wow, I didn't know so many people _cared_. It really mattered to them what I thought and whether it was the same as what they thought. Gee, I never knew.> <grin> not at *all* a bad way to look at it. Welcome back ... I missed you. <I will repress the urge for a group hug.> I don't see why not. Anything that would drive Avon completely up the wall *has* to be a good thing ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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The prodigal hath returned
by Ellynne G. 08 May '01

08 May '01

I admit, I was a tad peeved when I jumped off the list a bit ago. Let's face it, things that, read a certain way, might be very hard to take as kindly intended were said (or typed, I suppose). Then, I got to thinking about it. Wow, I didn't know so many people _cared_. It really mattered to them what I thought and whether it was the same as what they thought. Gee, I never knew. (Sniff) OK, emotional control back online. I will repress the urge for a group hug. Enough said. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: [B7L] The End (Was: Re: scripts and other ephemera)
by Sally Manton 08 May '01

08 May '01

<"David and/or Lesley McIntee" <master(a)allisurvey.freeserve.co.uk> writes re The End: <The script doesn't specifically say, but I'd guess this was a directorial touch (and it could as easily be triumphant as protective...)> I haven't heard Mary Ridge on the point, but Chris Boucher and Paul Darrow have both said they saw it as protective. But of course, Playing the Game means I need to ignore *that* and so you get ... *Why* triumphant? Not just that I don't see it in his stance, but what has he got to triumph about in shooting Blake? If he cares about Blake (an assumption perhaps, but easily bolstered with lots of evidence from S1, S2 and Terminal), he's just shot an unarmed, innocent friend. If you believe he *doesn't* care about Blake, he's still just lost his base, his ship, his figurehead, his reason for shooting Blake (see below)*, his crew and is looking straight at his own death. Where would the triumph be in that? Avon didn't feel any triumph or even satisfaction over *Shrinker's* death, and treated Travis's (Star One) as a minor distraction from the more important matter of Blake being injured and the Star One base being about to blow up. I do think it's protective. This is hardly logical, but then, when his emotions get soooo out of his rigid control (as they do at the end of rumours, where he's less blanked-out by shock but actually, breifly suicidal) Avon doesn't act logically, and one of his most basic *instincts* always was to protect Blake. Sally * - Arlen has after all made it clear that whatever *was* going on with Blake (and remember, Avon actually hasn't the foggiest idea) it wasn't betrayal. My own belief is that Avon already realised that before Blake hit the floor and, in a state of complete shock over what he's done, doesn't even hear her, but then my belief is that Avon doesn't hear or see *anything* but Blake until the moment he raises his eyes and sees he's surrounded ... and even then is oblivious to what has happened with Arlen and his own people. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Blakes7 May 2001